Footwear for Black Tie

[Concordia]

I have never seen pumps in suede. Maybe velvet slippers-- a traditional option-- would provide much the same effect?

[SouthPender]

I note that in the other fora a number of people seem to be enamored with the idea of using plain (unbrogued) black wholecuts with a DJ. Is there any consensus here on this? I think some regard the wholecut as a little too novel and inappropriate for use with a DJ. Any opinions on which is less appropriate, the plain black captoe or the plain black wholecut?

Good question, JLibourel. Let me suggest what might be a logical, if not necessarily correct, answer: Since, when one is standing at least, his trouser cuffs cover most of the visible part of the shoe except for the lower instep and toe, the wholecut would seem to be the better choice, since the fact that it is a plain-toe would be immediately apparent, but that it is not, say, a seamed shoe like an Adelaide, almost impossible to tell.

[iammatt]

I have never seen pumps in suede. Maybe velvet slippers-- a traditional option-- would provide much the same effect?

I used to have a pair of pumps in suede. They were made by Gravati, and I believe they still make them. My feet have very narrow heels compared to the fronts, so RTW slip ons don't work well for me and I gave the shoes away. I think they are still on the Gravati site. They are actually a very nice tuxedo shoe.

[Concordia]

Learn something new every day.

Those are nice peccary bluchers on that site, BTW.

[iammatt]

Learn something new every day.

Those are nice peccary bluchers on that site, BTW.

They make extraordinarily comfortable shoes, although the styling can be hit or miss. Some of their sporty shoes with rubber soles are worth looking at as they are nearly as comfortable as a sneaker.

[BirdofSydney]

I think that if you attend black tie fairly seldom, and own a high-end pair of black oxfords that can be polished to a high shine, that would be preferrable to a cheaper pair of pumps? On the other hand, the difference in quality between various pairs of pumps does not look too pronounced...

Patent oxfords look terrible, in my humble opinion, for anything but the parade ground...

[RWS]

Welcome to the Lounge, here2learn, and thanks for your thoughtful post. I'd propose a few modifications to your guidelines; but do note that my modifications show my preferences (and my observations of well-dressed men) -- they aren't broad conventions, or "rules", among the best-dressed: Manton is a definitive authority on that.

I agree that "Patent leather should generally never see daylight": well-phrased.

For evening dress, I prefer patent-leather pumps but recognize highly polished calf as acceptable. I don't like to see even plain oxfords worn with evening dress.

With dinner jackets, I again think that opera pumps look best: but, again, either patent-leather or polished calf. I've never seen suede pumps and doubt that they'd look good -- to my eye. Again, the commercial, work-a-day look of an oxford worn with a dinner jacket displeases me, and a captoe more than plain-toe.

No brogues!
Derby’s are for business or casual wear!

I quite agree. And nothing but black, of course.

[here2learn]

Thank you for the welcome RWS.

The composing of an outfit must correlate, it must match.

There are very strict "rules" for White Tie, as it is the most formal attire a gentleman can wear today (aside from uniforms and such).
White Tie - You go all the way... (evening and night only) (Morning suit for day use)
You can up it with starched collar and cuffs, or
You can go flashy with gold buttons and links.

With Black Tie, since it is a "dress down"...
(Gentlemen used to put on this smoking jacket to get out of the uncomfortable stiff tails, hence the shawl lapel.)
You have options:
Dress up; with wing collar and propeller, piqued etc. ,with pumps, or
Dress down with fold down collar and a business neck tie,
with Patent Leather or highly polished plain Oxford shoes.

If you choose to break these "rules", then make a balanced statement out of it.
Please do not send a mixed message...
If your best shoes for the occasion are not clean and smooth in the lines as Oxfords,
then wear a fold down collar and business tie, not a wing collar and bow.
Same, in my opinion, goes for the "Tux" with the notched lapel.

The most elegant attire, is the one that matches best. The smoother, the more elegant.

Just my oppinion...
Flame on...

[JLibourel]

As to suede pumps, I know that Allen-Edmonds offered them in the recent past. I can recall seeing them on sale at a low price at their outlet in Cabazon, California a couple of years ago.

The maxim to the effect that patent leather should generally never see daylight seems a little unrealistic. In the summer, especially in jurisdictions where daylight savings is in effect, it is still light well after the customary hours for evening events to commence. This is especially true in more northerly latitudes. As I recall, when I was at Oxford, it didn't really start to get dark until well after 10:00 p.m around the time of the summer solstice.

[Incroyable]

These suede pumps, they are available at Wilkes Bashford, which is made for them by Gravati.

However, I don't take to them particularly because of the last and its slightl bulkiness. For pumps I prefer an exceptionally slim and chisel toed silhouette; rather insouciant and dainty at the same time.

[manicturncoat]

Dress down with fold down collar and a business neck tie,
with Patent Leather or highly polished plain Oxford shoes.

I would avoid the necktie under any circumstance with a DJ. Could a pair of patent leather oxfords be considered a dress down option?

[here2learn]

I would avoid the necktie under any circumstance with a DJ. Could a pair of patent leather oxfords be considered a dress down option?

Pumps with a DJ would not be dress down...
For evening I should think that plain oxford patent leathers would be most elegant.
Polished calf oxfords would then be dress down for evening or most elegant for the afternoon.

You are supposed to be comfortable in a Tux/DJ, so yes, the collar should probably be a turn down.
Then again... A winged collar with a bow looks fantastic...

The DJ does give you some leeway as to compose your own level of formality in your attire.
Wonderful.
If you need to wear DJ on consecutive/several evenings/nights you can adjust to your own whim,
be Mr smith on Monday, the Duke of cloth on Wednesday and James Bond on Friday.

[aama19147]

I note that in the other fora a number of people seem to be enamored with the idea of using plain (unbrogued) black wholecuts with a DJ. Is there any consensus here on this? I think some regard the wholecut as a little too novel and inappropriate for use with a DJ. Any opinions on which is less appropriate, the plain black captoe or the plain black wholecut?

I use plain (no cap) black oxfords for all formal occasions. I can't wear pumps because I have arch supports and they don't work in any kind of pump or loafer. I don't like patent leather because it doesn't breathe well (add that to the combination of dancing in fine men's hosiery, and I suggest you take your shoes off in the hallway before entering the ladies home...and stand there a few minutes). Having spent time in military schools / academies, I can polish regular leather into a gloss to match any patent. If it helps, mine are Allen Edmunds and are 11 years old, still look great.

[Mr. Di Liberti]

Good afternoon Gents,

I'm 44, live in Los Angeles, my name is Anthony.

I've had the desire to dress well for decades, Being of large stature (think Samoan), off the rack has never been an option. I pick up my first besoke suit this afternoon.

Just ask my girl of 5 years to be my wife, I've never married.

I have yet to deside whether to wear the black suit I pick today or have a dinner suit made. More to the point is, I'm not sure which shoes would best fit the event.

I wear a 13 EEEEE shoe, the following are the only RTW shoes I like that will fit,







Any and all advice as to which shoes and whether or not a dinner or fine suit is best is wecome.

We'll be wed at 15:00 on the 31st of October this year.

Best regards,

Anthony

[DD MacDonald]

Anthony, don't worry about the clothes for the moment - I give you joy of your forthcoming wedding.

Regarding the clothing, unless you have a strong opinion and firmer resolve, best to ask your fiance about whether she'd rather see you in a dinner suit or the lounge suit that you are getting later today.

If the choice is the lounge suit, then either the cap-toe or the tassel loafer could work depending, again check with the wife (oops fiance), about how formal/casual the event is to be and chart your course from there. The loafer if casual; the lace-up if more formal.

If the choice is for a dinner suit, then choose between the cap-toe and the elastic-wholecut. I'd make the choice based on which I thought I'd get more use of from formal, to semi-formal, to proper business (and, therefore would likely go with the cap-toe).

Cheers,
David