Vests with a DB suit?

[smoothjazzone]

Gentlemen:

Thank you very much for all your responses. While I do occasionaly wear sweater vests in the office (not to cover braces as I do not have a single pair of brace trousers as yet, but more to compensate for the freezing conditions in my office in winter when I am sure someone in corporate is trying to cut down our heating bill), the idea of a 3pc DB suit does seem appealing to me. The vest will do a great job of covering up the braces for much of the day when I am indoors and add a little interest to the whole ensemble when worn with the jacket.

Since I have never been a fan of vests with notch or peak lapels, I am thinking of going with a simple SB vest (the fabric is a POW flannel). On a side note, I do love the shawl collared DB vest pictured in Flusser's latest book.

One follow-up question that I have for all of you is that if one were to get the suit with the vest, should the DB be a "Kent" style DB or a regular 6/2. If one went with a 6/2, would the vest then cover too much of the "V" in between the coat lapels? or alternatively would one then get a vest that barely peaks above the jacket? I really appreciate all your helpful suggestions.

Best regards.

[Mark Seitelman]

I would go for a 6/2 DB coat. The vest should be visible about 1" above the opening of the DB coat.

A DB suit with a vest is unique and gets noticed. I recently wore mine to a bar association dinner. A couple of gentlemen that I know complimented me. It is a bespoke, old world look, and people will know that you aren't wearing RTW. It's not an outfit for a person wishing to blend in.

[dopey]

Gentlemen:

[snip]

One follow-up question that I have for all of you is that if one were to get the suit with the vest, should the DB be a "Kent" style DB or a regular 6/2. If one went with a 6/2, would the vest then cover too much of the "V" in between the coat lapels? or alternatively would one then get a vest that barely peaks above the jacket? I really appreciate all your helpful suggestions.

Best regards.

This is an excellent question. I always get 6/4, but that is partly because that is what i do. It is not necessarily the most considered choice. I might actually look better in a properly fitted 6/2 and should try one. But, I think you should seriously consider the fact that the 6/4 is likely to cover your chest with more wrap and therefore, more of your body will be covered with three layers of cloth than in a 6/2. I would suspect that that 6/4 will be slightly less comfortable than 6/2. On a 6/4, the vest does peek out only slightly, which is fine with me. The photo nick cited to is a good example of how a vest would look with a 6/2. This is a good question for your tailor as he may have some good insight into what would look best on you.

[dopey]

After Manton’s comments on vest pockets, I was compelled to check mine. of the six Dege vests in my closet, two have top welt pockets. I was relieved to find that they are neither sewn shut nor shams, but are, as Manton described, cut deeply. The lower flapped waist pockets are shallower.

[smoothjazzone]

Just to get the terminology straight -- when I said 6/2, I meant six buttons overall and two to button on the left side of the coat -- which is what I think you mean by 6/4 (just like #12 in esky). I am not sure which is the correct term. The Kent (#21) as I understand looks like its made to button two buttons and has two buttonholes, but the lapel just rolls to the bottom button. Can someone more knowledgable than me please clarify. Thanks.

[manton]

I think there is a bit of confusion here. (I apologize in advance if I am wrong).

American usage defines the "6 on 2" button stance on a DB coat as six front buttons, the bottom four arranged like a square, the top two further "out" toward the sides of the coat. The lapels are rolled to the middle row of buttons. There is an "anchor" button on the inside left of the coat to which is matched by an interior buttonhole on the right side, both at the middle level. On the outside, the left side of the coat "wraps" over the top (or front) of the right and buttons at the right middle button. You could also button the bottom button, but customarily, this is not done (and I don't think it looks good). Hence six total showing buttons, two of which can be buttoned (right middle and right bottom).

The "6 on 1" coat can be one of two things. Either the button stance is the same as above, but the lapels are rolled to the bottom row and the middle right button cannot be fastened because of the lapel roll. Or, the button stance is arranged like a keystone, and the "anchor" button is at the bottom row, and the middle button cannot be buttoned because of the button stance and the lapel roll (plus, there is no middle buttonhole in any case).

The true "Kent" model is the first 6 on 1 described above: i.e., 6 on 2 button stance, but long lapel roll. The other kind is (I believe) a more recent innovation, introduced by the fashion industry.

[dopey]

OK. By Manton’s definitions, which seem correct and reasonable, when I said 6/4, I meant 6 on 2 and when I said 6/2, I meant 6 on 1.
The Esky drawings are confusing because they use 6/2 to mean rolled to the button button, but possible to button in the middle.

[manton]

Flusser and others claim that you can make a DB coat with a 6 on 2 stance that can be buttoned either way (middle or bottom) but I find that this does not really work out in real life. The lapel roll has to end somewhere, and if it's at the middle, and you button at the bottom, then the coat will try to stay closed at the middle and look odd; and if the lapel roll ends at the bottom, but you try to button the middle, you will just end up straining the lapel against its built-in roll in a way that is obvious and unsightly. In my experience.

[dopey]

Flusser and others claim that you can make a DB coat with a 6 on 2 stance that can be buttoned either way (middle or bottom) but I find that this does not really work out in real life. The lapel roll has to end somewhere, and if it's at the middle, and you button at the bottom, then the coat will try to stay closed at the middle and look odd; and if the lapel roll ends at the bottom, but you try to button the middle, you will just end up straining the lapel against its built-in roll in a way that is obvious and unsightly. In my experience.

This is certainly not possible with the way Dege cuts lapels. There is a noticeable curve to the shape of the lapel that begins at the button point. Changing the button point would result in either a silly looking lapel or a silly looking coat front.

[nick]

Found a photo in one of my old books of the DOW in a double-breasted with vest, 4 on 2, quite natty:

URL=http://img205.echo.cx/my.php?image=dow2x2ec.jpg][/URL]

Also notice how large his trouser cuffs are; rather unexpected for a shorter man. Love the way his trousers kiss the top of his shoes. Do not like, for myself, the baggy trousers -- I have enough natural bag, so to speak.