Commissioning a bespoke suit for the first time.

[Busonian]

So you would recommend a bespoke navy suit (that can be worn after graduation and to interviews), and a normal, possibly, MTM dinner suit (given that the chances of wearing a true dinner suit is rare)?

Or I just might flout tradition and get a 'dinner' suit that is more like a business suit (for added versatility)? Do students actually really adhere to true black tie/white tie conventions, or do most just slip on a black suit that they attempt to pass off as a dinner suit?

Personally, I would bespeak a three piece, 2-button SB in a very dark charcoal, perhaps with a herringbone or self-stripe. This can then be worn with subfusc and after you graduate.

If you intend to dine regularly in hall (as I would recommend in your first year) then it is certainly worth having a proper, three piece evening suit. Although you will wear your gown over it during dinner, if you are invited for drinks afterwards you will want to look your best. Trying to pass off a black suit will undoubtedly fail; and, superficial as it may be, will leave a distinctly negative impression with the people who count - both students and tutors.

[hectorm]

And yes, I was referring to books on Savile Row. I apologize for not being clear.

There are at least a dozen excellent books about Savile Road that IMO are worth reading.
I would recommend that you start -once again- with a trio:
The basic and very good The Savile Row Story: an illustrated history by Richard Walker;
The big format with wonderful photographs Bespoke: the men's style of Savile Row by James Sherwood; and in a more personal note, the engrossing Bespoke: Savile Row ripped and smoothed by Richard Anderson (yes the proprietor and head cutter of 13 Savile Road himself). Read the latter last since it will give you an insider's look after you know the "official" story.

[Costi]

Why don't you try a gray flannel suit? Or even a tweed jacket and a pair of odd trousers? Something you can make more use of without feeling / looking out of place where you are going to spend the next few years.

I'm sure the typical student there no longer dresses for "Brideshead Revisited," but many of the colleges do have regular formal dinners that can require dark suits. So having the necessary uniform for that would be a Good Thing.

I think a young man can take a flannel suit to many more places today than in the days of "Brideshead Revisited".
However, inasmuch as it is a matter of necessity or requirements, have those covered, of course. But if you are going to have a dinner suit, perhaps a dark blue worsted suit is not a must. I may be biased, I only have one and it has been hanging idly in the closet for a couple of years, I haven't even had it taken in after I lost weight. My grays, however, see the light of day (and night) all the time. As do my flannels. Hmmm...
Don't listen to me, I guess

[Rowly]

A good compromise, perhaps, would be a mid to dark grey worsted with a milled finish...a faux flannel, if you like. This is versatile..and you could wear the trousers with a tweed jacket from time to time when you want to be less casual than with cords. I would keep the tweed understated and not too loud..such as a plain muted green herringbone, or dark blue..or grey. I would advise against a dark suit to imitate a dinner suit...a cheap real rtw dinner suit is better than a bespoke pretend dinner suit IMHO...I hope this helps.

[Rowly]

Don't listen to me, I guess

Do listen to Costi...his expert advise is invaluable

[Costi]

Don't listen to me, I guess

Do listen to Costi...his expert advise is invaluable

Rowly, very kind of you - not fishing for compliments, just honestly considering whether I'm not thinking too much of myself when I volunteer advice, rather than of the person who asks the question and his particular circumstances. Too much bias, perhaps. But it's still good if I realize it

[Rowly]

Costi, I think, when you have a passionate interest in something, it is impossible not to have some bias. We all have some of that. The Music of the Day thread is a good example. I have been introduced to gems that I would not have known about. I have also been introduced to music I actively dislike. There are those who give a sense of wanting to share something they see as beautiful..and there are those who merely want to appear erudite and highbrow.
It is up to us to read between the lines and ultimately make our own decisions, as we are the ones who must live with them.
So, I would strongly urge anyone to pay attention to your advice..but also to take responsibility for their own decisions. I think that learning to achieve a balance between the two is what gives the LL membership its greatest benefit. There are those posts I may not agree with...and there are those posts I would be a fool not to read!
Rowly.

[marburyvmadison]

Most invaluable information and advice.

Is there a reason why people tend to prefer a charcoal/dark grey suit for business in the UK, over a navy blue suit? Not sure if this is a culture or preference difference, but in the US, navy suits tend to be the norm. Is this observation true in the UK, or am I misapprehending.

What about a color like this, generally, for business? Would this be considered a dark, or mid-navy blue? And what do you think about the cut and fit.

article-2010322-0CD2AF7F00000578-899_470x782.jpg

[Berwick]

It may be historical - navy blue suits were given to servicemen after the war - the "Demob suit", so it became very unfashionable for a while (e.g. 1950's).

It is none the less considered appropriate buisness wear. The prince's suit looks fine to me - conservative. He needs to take more pairs of trousers with him it he only takes the one suit, however.

[Concordia]

Earlier on, Edward VII was known to have given grief to a staffer who wore navy blue while on the job. Too fashionable. Perhaps the London standard was derived from black Victorian frock coats?

The US wouldn't have had quite that standard, except perhaps in NY and a few other East Coast capitals. Probably the Sears catalogue had a larger role in shaping the taste of the midwest and left coast. I wonder what they featured, and why?

At any rate, navy is a totally conservative choice in the US for business-- Molloy's Dress for Success, IIRC, labeled it the one color most likely to establish trust with the American middle class.

[marburyvmadison]

Agreed. In the US, almost ALL politicians wear navy suits. Not so much in the UK it seems? More charcoal?

[TuAutem]

In the building I work, as everyday wear, yes, wearing any suit would make you like someone coming to give a high-end guest lecture. Generally, students will wear (college) sweaters and jeans, with not a square inch of flannel in sight. But for more formal events, the navy suit will work perfectly well. Dinner jacket is great for formal hall (with gown, of course), but I'd ask myself if it would be worth the expense for bespoke if that meant cutting back on items of more general applicability (blazer/tweed or odd coats, ...)

So you would recommend a bespoke navy suit (that can be worn after graduation and to interviews), and a normal, possibly, MTM dinner suit (given that the chances of wearing a true dinner suit is rare)?

Or I just might flout tradition and get a 'dinner' suit that is more like a business suit (for added versatility)? Do students actually really adhere to true black tie/white tie conventions, or do most just slip on a black suit that they attempt to pass off as a dinner suit?

If you attend a black tie event at Oxford in a lounge suit, you will develop a reputation as one of the worst dressed men around. Do get a proper dinner jacket, as you will have occasion to wear it at least once a month, and possibly much more often. (It can vary a lot, depending on your college and the groups you associate with, but if you're on this forum...) Far better to buy second-hand or RTW outfit that meets the black tie dress code, than to try to get by with a black lounge suit and bowtie, no matter how well made. With every other male in a dinner jacket, you will stick out like a sore thumb.

By the same token, it would be a major faux pas to attend formal hall or a sub-fusc occasion in a dinner jacket. For sub-fusc you need a charcoal or black lounge suit, and wear an ordinary white shirt (I recommend charcoal as it will be more useful as a business suit). At formal hall, requirements vary, at my college a suit was required on Sundays and Wednesdays and a jacket and tie were sufficient on other days (always with gowns, of course), and I believe our college had the strictest dress code. There are special guest dinners which are black tie, but this is always explicitly stated.

If you attend formal hall nightly (which I did, but most students do more occasionally), then you will have plenty of occasions to wear suits, but will more likely gravitate towards odd jackets. We are probably a minority who wear jackets and ties every day, but by no means an out of place one. For events though, the occasional iconoclast notwithstanding, everyone adheres to the dress code, although to varying degrees of quality depending on their sartorial knowledge, and means. The majority will probably have far less of both than you do--but you will encounter some with far, far more.

For bespoke, then, I think the most useful would be a charcoal suit or a tweed jacket. But the priority should be on having a complete wardrobe, covering all the necessary bases (which Busonian did a great job outlining above). If this is all in place, I say bespeak whichever thing it is that you will derive the most pleasure from wearing.

[TuAutem]

It occurs to me to clarify that my post above was based on my experience as a postgraduate student; if you dine at high table your experience may differ, I think at some colleges fellows may indeed regularly wear black tie at formal hall.

[marburyvmadison]

Hope I'm making the right choice. I opted for a single breasted suit in Navy blue by H Lesser Golden Lumb (7 1/2-8oz) HL31068.

Any idea how suits this weight will hold up over time?

[rogiercreemers]

Did you order a second pair of trousers?