Back in 2017, this subforum held a lively discussion of the future of tailoring. The consensus was that tailoring was in a slow decline, as the practice of wearing suits (tailored or not) was dying. Seven years on, the situation has clearly played out the way lounge members were anticipating. So, I'm wondering what this situation has implied for our daily dressing.
Of course, we dress to please ourselves. But we do this within the current social context. I might think it would be a splendid idea to wear a toga in summer, noting that it is comfortable and elegant and, well, someone needs to uphold European tradition going back 2000 years. But if I actually wore a toga in the public square this summer, I know I would be mocked mercilessly. And knowing this, I wouldn't dare dress this way.
I don't think that we have quite reached this point with respect to suits. Instead, the situation is more subtle, with the social acceptability of suits depending on the particular situation. Clearly, we can no longer wear them to sporting events, as our parents did. On the other hand, suits are still the norm at weddings.
So my question: where do people draw the line? On what occasions do members wear their suits?
when to wear a suit?
Dear Jfelman,
Yes, we have seen a certain decline of the suit, and in many countries a decline in formality. I don't know where you live - you may want to adapt at least a a little bit.
Living in continental Europe, I'm still wearing tweed suits for sport events, or tweed coats with flannel trousers when I'm around poorly dressed academics. And I wear evening suits for opera, concert or a nice evening out in town. I stick to business suits at professional events.
More important than watching what others do is the question whom you want to be. If you're not yourself, you look strange regardless of what you are wearing. You quote the toga - well this is theatre indeed. If your life is theatre, wear it. We have seen the Pitti peacocks some years ago - this is also theatre and not my world.
Whatever you wear - tailored suiting or relaxed ready-to-wear: make sure it is of the best quality you can afford, and make sure it is you wearing it, not the other way round.
Cheers, David
Yes, we have seen a certain decline of the suit, and in many countries a decline in formality. I don't know where you live - you may want to adapt at least a a little bit.
Living in continental Europe, I'm still wearing tweed suits for sport events, or tweed coats with flannel trousers when I'm around poorly dressed academics. And I wear evening suits for opera, concert or a nice evening out in town. I stick to business suits at professional events.
More important than watching what others do is the question whom you want to be. If you're not yourself, you look strange regardless of what you are wearing. You quote the toga - well this is theatre indeed. If your life is theatre, wear it. We have seen the Pitti peacocks some years ago - this is also theatre and not my world.
Whatever you wear - tailored suiting or relaxed ready-to-wear: make sure it is of the best quality you can afford, and make sure it is you wearing it, not the other way round.
Cheers, David
David,
Thanks for your reply.
To answer some of your questions, I am neither a Pitti peacock nor an actor. Just an ordinary person, with a closet full of suits, many of them made with LL cloth. A decade ago, I was wearing these suits every day, no matter what I was doing. But nowadays things are different. On many occasions when I wear a suit I sense that people think I am indeed a peacock or an actor, which is not really an impression I wish to create.
I realise that there seems to be more lattitude to dress "properly" in Europe. Unfortunately, I live in the United States.
Whatever. I'm still interested in how the members of the Lounge, across the globe, are navigating the brave new world.
Where do you wear your suits, beyond the opera?
Thanks for your reply.
To answer some of your questions, I am neither a Pitti peacock nor an actor. Just an ordinary person, with a closet full of suits, many of them made with LL cloth. A decade ago, I was wearing these suits every day, no matter what I was doing. But nowadays things are different. On many occasions when I wear a suit I sense that people think I am indeed a peacock or an actor, which is not really an impression I wish to create.
I realise that there seems to be more lattitude to dress "properly" in Europe. Unfortunately, I live in the United States.
Whatever. I'm still interested in how the members of the Lounge, across the globe, are navigating the brave new world.
Where do you wear your suits, beyond the opera?
You should wear what you want, but of course it's difficult to be unaffected by your environment.
There are limits to how much one can adapt to one's surroundings. I couldn't wear shorts and t-shirts in town just because others do. I would feel uncomfortable and that would hardly be stylish.
Instead I wear linen trousers with some knitted polo an loafers for example.
There's been a steep decline in the wear (and requirement) of business suits, however i'm not sure that this applies to tailoring in general. I see plenty of coats, jackets and tailored trousers.
The decline of the formal suit could have the small benefit of eroding the association between "business" and "suits", making tailoring more acceptable in other contexts.
There's a lot of room to wear tailoring in a fairly casual way, particularly garments made of tweed, linen, flannel and generally non-worsted fabrics.
You can wear a tweed, flannel or linen suit with a roll neck, a polo shirt, even knitwear. Some worsteds might also work.
Wearing jeans with a sports coat or an overcoat is fairly common too.
You can wear more casual shirts with your tailoring (denim, western shirts, flannel, corduroy).
Flannel or cavalry twill trousers can be worn fairly casually too. With most kinds of knitwear and almost any shirt.
This is how I tend to wear my tailored clothes mostly. I wear worsted suits mostly to formal events. I've never worked in an industry that required a suit, so my habits haven't changed much. If anything, I've worn tailoring more often as my wardrobe as grown.
In my social circles, people have praised my flannel trousers, tweed jackets, etc. When asked, I've recommended specific garments to friends and acquaintances (relative to price they were willing to pay).
Perhaps it would be helpful to post pictures of LL garments worn in different environments.
There are limits to how much one can adapt to one's surroundings. I couldn't wear shorts and t-shirts in town just because others do. I would feel uncomfortable and that would hardly be stylish.
Instead I wear linen trousers with some knitted polo an loafers for example.
There's been a steep decline in the wear (and requirement) of business suits, however i'm not sure that this applies to tailoring in general. I see plenty of coats, jackets and tailored trousers.
The decline of the formal suit could have the small benefit of eroding the association between "business" and "suits", making tailoring more acceptable in other contexts.
There's a lot of room to wear tailoring in a fairly casual way, particularly garments made of tweed, linen, flannel and generally non-worsted fabrics.
You can wear a tweed, flannel or linen suit with a roll neck, a polo shirt, even knitwear. Some worsteds might also work.
Wearing jeans with a sports coat or an overcoat is fairly common too.
You can wear more casual shirts with your tailoring (denim, western shirts, flannel, corduroy).
Flannel or cavalry twill trousers can be worn fairly casually too. With most kinds of knitwear and almost any shirt.
This is how I tend to wear my tailored clothes mostly. I wear worsted suits mostly to formal events. I've never worked in an industry that required a suit, so my habits haven't changed much. If anything, I've worn tailoring more often as my wardrobe as grown.
In my social circles, people have praised my flannel trousers, tweed jackets, etc. When asked, I've recommended specific garments to friends and acquaintances (relative to price they were willing to pay).
Perhaps it would be helpful to post pictures of LL garments worn in different environments.
A lot of factors, some unrelated.
The pandemic got a lot of people wondering why they should wear anything at all resembling a uniform-- which is what the lounge/business suit was for a better part of the 20th century.
In the UK, you had top Tories wearing suits without ties for quite a while before that, and it seems to be taking hold in the US. My son did exactly that for his sister's wedding. I don't know if that is a legitimate trend, or just people trying to get juice out of their old suits before chucking them and replacing them with polos and khakis.
The pandemic got a lot of people wondering why they should wear anything at all resembling a uniform-- which is what the lounge/business suit was for a better part of the 20th century.
In the UK, you had top Tories wearing suits without ties for quite a while before that, and it seems to be taking hold in the US. My son did exactly that for his sister's wedding. I don't know if that is a legitimate trend, or just people trying to get juice out of their old suits before chucking them and replacing them with polos and khakis.
Wearing a suit without a necktie is an act of submission.
Courage is elegant. Submission never is.
Courage is elegant. Submission never is.
I agree with Nem500 that there is still plenty of scope to wear tailoring.
I also agree with Alden that foregoing a tie is surrendering.
But that brings me back to my question: do people still feel comfortable wearing their LL suits -- with ties -- around town, apart from special occasions such as going to the opera? Say, for example, when going out to a nice restaurant. Or attending a play or concert. Or going to a museum. What rules do people follow?
Or do people find that their suits are nowadays mainly confined to the closet?
I also agree with Alden that foregoing a tie is surrendering.
But that brings me back to my question: do people still feel comfortable wearing their LL suits -- with ties -- around town, apart from special occasions such as going to the opera? Say, for example, when going out to a nice restaurant. Or attending a play or concert. Or going to a museum. What rules do people follow?
Or do people find that their suits are nowadays mainly confined to the closet?
I wear a suit, and a necktie, Mon-Fri almost without fail, as a matter of choice. As an academic, even in a leadership position, I could probably turn up looking like a farmer. However, my colleagues know what to expect (some of them do likewise) and if I dressed any differently they would probably wonder what was wrong. I find dining out much more casual these days but I would never be without a tailored jacket in a restaurant. This is how I feel comfortable and I have no intention of changing.
Customs vary. The UK is more suit-friendly, but perhaps due more to thrift. A lot of older guys don't want to throw out old clothes to make room in their narrow wardrobes for flashy new sport coats and barracuda jackets. Instead, they keep the old stuff and maybe do without ties, or have a jumper on hand. It sometimes helps if you have a suit that doesn't scream "expensive law firm!" So instead of Lesser 13oz rope stripes, maybe a Wabi Sabi equivalent.
Very interesting points.
I agree that once you've established a reputation for dressing well, people you know will expect you to dress in that way. That's one reason why I was wondering what people did when they were in places where people do not know them, such as a museum or restaurant.
I also agree that there are suits...and there are suits. In the old days, if you didn't want to stand out, the best strategy was to avoid wearing flashy suits. Nowadays, perhaps you need to wear a suit that looks old or inexpensive!
I agree that once you've established a reputation for dressing well, people you know will expect you to dress in that way. That's one reason why I was wondering what people did when they were in places where people do not know them, such as a museum or restaurant.
I also agree that there are suits...and there are suits. In the old days, if you didn't want to stand out, the best strategy was to avoid wearing flashy suits. Nowadays, perhaps you need to wear a suit that looks old or inexpensive!
I work for a large consumer electronics company in Cupertino, California, where I manage a team of software engineers. This is what I wore to work on Tuesday:
IMG_1165 by Andrew Poupart, on Flickr
Yesterday I wore my Edward Sexton jacket made up from LL cashmere and a red polka-dot bow tie. Today I wore a flannel jacket and cream trousers. On Tuesday I was the only person, most probably, in the entire company who wore a suit, let alone a tie. Similarly Wednesday with the bow tie.
Why? Because I wanted to. My company does not have a dress code, so I dress how I want. Not as many people as you might think care one way or another how other people are dressed. So when you worry about what people might think, they are probably not thinking of you at all. Wear what you want.
IMG_1165 by Andrew Poupart, on FlickrYesterday I wore my Edward Sexton jacket made up from LL cashmere and a red polka-dot bow tie. Today I wore a flannel jacket and cream trousers. On Tuesday I was the only person, most probably, in the entire company who wore a suit, let alone a tie. Similarly Wednesday with the bow tie.
Why? Because I wanted to. My company does not have a dress code, so I dress how I want. Not as many people as you might think care one way or another how other people are dressed. So when you worry about what people might think, they are probably not thinking of you at all. Wear what you want.
A few quick comments:
-> I personally veer towards what Andy and Daviduh have said: I wear clothes that I enjoy.
Since they are, IMO, objectively not offensive nor impractical, I really don't see how it' anyone else's business>
My experience of this is quite positive.
-> At the same time, I completely understand that some people feel uncomfortable sticking out.
I think it's possible to dress better than the average and still not stick out too much but, yes, if you wear a nice suit to a pub it sticks out.
-> I do think that once "business suits" as a corporate uniform have not been around for sometime, the connotations will be less onerous.
-> As a general rule (work would be an exception), I don't hang around people who resent how someone else is dressed, when that person is dressed in perfectly reasonable clothing.
-> I personally veer towards what Andy and Daviduh have said: I wear clothes that I enjoy.
Since they are, IMO, objectively not offensive nor impractical, I really don't see how it' anyone else's business>
My experience of this is quite positive.
-> At the same time, I completely understand that some people feel uncomfortable sticking out.
I think it's possible to dress better than the average and still not stick out too much but, yes, if you wear a nice suit to a pub it sticks out.
-> I do think that once "business suits" as a corporate uniform have not been around for sometime, the connotations will be less onerous.
-> As a general rule (work would be an exception), I don't hang around people who resent how someone else is dressed, when that person is dressed in perfectly reasonable clothing.
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Mark Seitelman
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Very true.Mark Seitelman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 07, 2024 8:46 pmBravo!
A suit without a tie looks unfinished. As if the wearer forgot something. You need something at the collar..
In London among many professionals, especially in finance, a (tight) plain navy SB suit, white shirt and open collar has become ubiquitous. To wear grey or a stripe - let alone a tie - is transgressive.
I attended a conference this week where every one of my dozen colleagues was wearing the navy / open neck uniform.
So I wore tweed (& a tie).
https://imgur.com/FqLqjmc
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