Dress With Style
The original poster asked the question 16 years ago, I really hope he has gotten his shirts by now!ks wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:36 amHa ha ha! Fair enough; fair enough.
Definition of bespoke means that I can do what I want with my shirt and you can do what you want! Original poster wanted suggestions. These were mine. Bespoke means that you never have to buy the shirt that I design!
....and i never have to wear the shirt you design!
Best Known Method.andy57 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:16 pmI don't know what "BKM" means, but a well-made, properly fitting shirt should not have or require darts on the back of the shirt or anywhere else.isakuhyogo wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:42 amSuch a concise thread. Excelent!
What is the BKM on shirt back darts ?
The only time I've had a shirt maker suggest darts on the back of a shirt was at Charvet, a few years ago. I was in Paris and, as one does, went into Charvet to explore. I started to talk to a member of the staff about shirts and, given my time constraints, he suggest MTM. Fair enough. The problem was that their MTM blocks are rather billowy and would have required rear darts to give the shirt body some semblance of a fit. I declined to pay Charvet prices for an MTM shirt with darts and we agreed that bespoke was the best option. But I did not have time to undertake that process and I don't think I've been back to Paris since. And, in the meanwhile, I've come to realize I'm very happy with Budd so I'll stick with what I know. Maybe.isakuhyogo wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:23 pmBest Known Method.andy57 wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 8:16 pmI don't know what "BKM" means, but a well-made, properly fitting shirt should not have or require darts on the back of the shirt or anywhere else.isakuhyogo wrote: ↑Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:42 amSuch a concise thread. Excelent!
What is the BKM on shirt back darts ?
Neither require, nor have. It resonates right with me. Why would a shirt tailors like/suggest it ?
Oh wow. The original post just came up on my feed, and I did not check the original posting date. Yes, I am sure the original poster got his shirts. Too bad he did not follow up with what he ended up getting.belimad wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 11:52 amThe original poster asked the question 16 years ago, I really hope he has gotten his shirts by now!ks wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 7:36 amHa ha ha! Fair enough; fair enough.
Definition of bespoke means that I can do what I want with my shirt and you can do what you want! Original poster wanted suggestions. These were mine. Bespoke means that you never have to buy the shirt that I design!
....and i never have to wear the shirt you design!
Joking aside, I think Andy’s point goes more towards the fact that these suggestions seems to do very little for form and function (except for the chest pocket, which by the way most formal shirts will not have anyway), and are more in the realm of floritures that don’t necessarily age well from a style point of view.
I have to agree... my personal opinion is that it is quite often a mistake to make bespoke items different just because you can... it does not appeal to me conceptually or stylistically.andy57 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 4:05 amI'm sorry, but I think these are all rather poor suggestions.ks wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:14 amOther possible modifications.
• If you will wear your shirt casually without a tie at times, the distance from the second button to the collar. Too much distance and you will look like Magnum PI when you wear with the top button unbuttoned. Too little, and it looks…off. Once you've established that distance, your tailor will spread out the other buttonholes accordingly. With a V-neck undershirt please. If you have chest hair coming out, you really will be Magnum PI!
• You could have the bottom-most button hold done in green or some other color thread (since it will be tucked into your pants and never seen – it’s a little secret between you and your dry cleaner).
• Different color fabric under the collar or inside the cuff – but so many off-the-rack shirts do this now that you may seem more Jersey Shores than bespoke. But again, it’s under the same principle that if you wear the shirt correctly, no one should know that you’ve modified it like this.
• How do you want the collar to meet above the tie. Does the collar meet and from an upside down “V” above the tie or is there space between the two sides of the collar. But maybe that is what is meant by zero tie space in the comments above…?
• No breast pocket -- all off-the-rack shirts have breast pockets. And since you're never putting anything in this pocket, don't have one in the first place
• Monograms (please put on the tail and in a light color like yellow so again it’s not viewable when worn correctly and please never on the cuff and since you don't have a breast pocket, you can't put in on or above that pocket!)
But these are sort of fun suggestions rather than having to do with fit and function. But as others have said, part of the fun of bespoke...is the fun!
In regards to darts. This is very interesting, as I did pay bespoke prices for a Charvet shirt with darts, but I think that shirt fits well. However, the salesperson at Liverano once told me that when they see a shirt with darts they know it's a bad shirt, he then went on to sell me a shirt with a pocket, which I absolutely resent but only found out when I returned home from Florence (I think he picked out the wrong one in the colour and size that I want). Back to the darts, for me, this is not a hard and fast rule, I'm sure for some physiques, darts are needed to achieve certain fit.andy57 wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 5:48 pm
The only time I've had a shirt maker suggest darts on the back of a shirt was at Charvet, a few years ago. I was in Paris and, as one does, went into Charvet to explore. I started to talk to a member of the staff about shirts and, given my time constraints, he suggest MTM. Fair enough. The problem was that their MTM blocks are rather billowy and would have required rear darts to give the shirt body some semblance of a fit. I declined to pay Charvet prices for an MTM shirt with darts and we agreed that bespoke was the best option. But I did not have time to undertake that process and I don't think I've been back to Paris since. And, in the meanwhile, I've come to realize I'm very happy with Budd so I'll stick with what I know. Maybe.
These are good suggestions.ks wrote: ↑Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:14 amOther possible modifications.
• If you will wear your shirt casually without a tie at times, the distance from the second button to the collar. Too much distance and you will look like Magnum PI when you wear with the top button unbuttoned. Too little, and it looks…off. Once you've established that distance, your tailor will spread out the other buttonholes accordingly. With a V-neck undershirt please. If you have chest hair coming out, you really will be Magnum PI!
• You could have the bottom-most button hold done in green or some other color thread (since it will be tucked into your pants and never seen – it’s a little secret between you and your dry cleaner).
• Different color fabric under the collar or inside the cuff – but so many off-the-rack shirts do this now that you may seem more Jersey Shores than bespoke. But again, it’s under the same principle that if you wear the shirt correctly, no one should know that you’ve modified it like this.
• How do you want the collar to meet above the tie. Does the collar meet and from an upside down “V” above the tie or is there space between the two sides of the collar. But maybe that is what is meant by zero tie space in the comments above…?
• No breast pocket -- all off-the-rack shirts have breast pockets. And since you're never putting anything in this pocket, don't have one in the first place
• Monograms (please put on the tail and in a light color like yellow so again it’s not viewable when worn correctly and please never on the cuff and since you don't have a breast pocket, you can't put in on or above that pocket!)
But these are sort of fun suggestions rather than having to do with fit and function. But as others have said, part of the fun of bespoke...is the fun!
I’ve been using Santamaria lately. MTM that is very good quality for the price and very efficient. They’ve gone out of their way to accommodate pretty much everything I’ve asked for. Then again, I’m not a complicated customer when it comes to shirts.
Dear Mansell,
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