Rules or Taste

[alden]

as open and airy as an upper verandah, framing the sun, about to set over the south Atlantic ocean; the blue, lightly mackerel-clouded sky going golden in the west, as we reach for the 40' gin, Antarctic agua tonica, ice, glasses and limes from the garden..............

......would you pass the Rollagas, please?

Thanks.

[storeynicholas]

This is a sore point because I did have a very nice Dunhill lighter which was stolen when our house was burgled in London and so I can pass you only a Cricket which is mainly black plastic but perfectly adequate for the good cigarettes and cigars on sale -even some Havanas - I assume that they are real but I don't invest because I doubt that they are well kept - however, Lucky Strike cigs are here and some local ones are also fine! Now back to that drink.
Cheers!!
NJS

[darte]

With all due respect, I personally don't subscribe to an elite view of "taste" in dress. Not only do people have different tastes, but they have different priorities; many may view such close attention to dress as being nothing more than foppish. Yet it should be this very fact that relatively few people have "taste" in your view that makes your enjoyment greater when you see it or exhibit it yourself.

There is absolutely nothing “elite” about taste. As a matter of fact, these days, the elites are those whose taste is the most questionable. I have often told the story of the one peasant farmer who works among many others on my land in Italy. He has taste. He dresses in rags, but he has a way of wearing his rags that set him apart from the others. His rags are balanced. His scarf is knotted around his neck in just such a way as to be, well, as to be chic. He has a talent the others do not have. I am quite sure he does not spend a lot of time worrying about his dress or signing onto clothing discussion groups so we will not be tempted to call him a fop. His taste is innate. It’s a naturally occurring phenomenon. That is the kind of thing that interests us.

When you say “people have different tastes” I think you are confusing preference and taste. Some might prefer “modern” furniture in their homes rather than “French country”, but within the modern or French country there will be examples of good, bad and awful taste.

And I am not sure what priorities have to do with elegance or good taste. Taste is all encompassing. One does not decide to have taste in boats or interior decoration and let the rest slide. Taste will be a generally recurring theme in all the endeavors of a person so endowed.

I do agree with you that an overly minute fascination with clothes leads most men to resemble fops. Our streets, clubs, shops, offices and internet clothing sites are loaded with examples. Good taste leads us to understand that dress is a matter of composition, like writing, or painting. Some have an eye for it and some don’t.

One of the charters of the LL is to aid others who would like to improve their elegance quotients in all endeavors including dress. This is very much a contrary state to the “enjoyment” or gloating that you accuse.

Take a minute to read the volumes of practical advice on the site and if you have any questions, shoot..again.

Cheers

Indeed I have taken many minutes to read the innumerable postings in which so much knowledge and advice have been generously shared. And I'm amazed by the time and effort you and several others put into LL. That is why I wanted to join (and eventually to contribute).
I was not accusing. I may have missed the subtlety, but I was responding to your point that "good taste remains an asset of the very few." I had interpreted your comment as a lament, so I thought a positive aspect to this is that observing or exercising good taste should be all the more gratifying for its rarity.

With regards, darte

[rewozz]

When rules are nectar and sage advice they are also a pleasure. When they are dogma focused on a micro-scale to the nits and bleached bones, they are for the birds.

Cheers

Michael

There is a similar quote by Dee, Hock:

"Simple, clear purpose and principles give rise to complex, intelligent behavior. Complex rules and regulations give rise to simple and stupid behavior."

Da Vinci said simplicity is the ultimate sophistocation.

[Costi]

True, rewozz - here is another similar one by Baudelaire:

"Rhetorics and prosody are not arbitrarily invented tyrants, but a collection of rules required by the very organization of the spiritual being; prosody and rhetorics never impeded the distinct manifestation of originality. The contrary is infinitely more true, that they helped originality mature itself."

Apparel arts are not much unlike poetry - dress has rhythm in patterns, metre in cut, rhyme in colours. Originality needn't ignore good form and the latter may be used as a system of reference to channel creativity.
Perhaps taste relies on a deeper understanding of the rules, of their meaning, until they become principles of your own, and represents a creative manner of applying them to an original material. Taste manifests itself in all aspects of life because it is that required "organization of the spiritual being" that applies its criteria to everything it encounters; it is individual, but not whimsical, it has a structure, though hard as it may be to explain it.
Perhaps the best suggestion is in a famous couple of lines of the same master or in a painting of Matisse that interprets them:



"Là, tout n'est qu'ordre et beautè
Luxe, calme et voluptè"

[alden]

I am going back through the decades of LL posts and pulling some of them up for our new members who might not have the patience to do so themselves. There were some very entertaining discussions back in the day. I hope you enjoy them ....again.

Cheers

[Luca]

Thanks, dear Mr Alden.
I confess I periodically go back to some of the great old threads.