Shirts and capitalism

[rguion]

After reading and learning from LL for the past few months, I have finally become a member. It is a pleasure to be with you all.

I have questions regarding design of dress shirts. About a year ago I bought my first custom shirts (two, to be exact) from a local shop in New Jersey after many dissatisfying RTW experiences. My chief concern had been collar design. So many decent RTW shirts are simply trashed by poorly designed collars. I was simply looking for a basic spread collar with NO tie space and decent point length (3 inches). I could never find this on shirts for $100 or less once I added another restriction: no chest pocket. (I became obsessed with the search for no tie space/no chest pocket shirts after a little too much Flusser worship, but that’s another post.) It was easy to find my shirt at $150 or more (not to mention better designed collars without regard to tie space), but by that point I could take that much money and put it towards custom. There may be some legitimate questions as to whether my local shop is truly “custom/bespoke,” but I was happy with the results, I could afford it, and I didn’t have to buy more than one. Add the fact that my guy was willing to put my newly designed collar on any shits I wished, allowing me to turn my Polo Ralph Lauren shirts (the only widely available no chest pocket shirt in the United States) into useful items. Needless to say, I have a number of white shirts and contrast collared shirts.

I have since come across a decently skilled young alterations tailor who claims he can make copies of my custom shirt at a better price than the original including materials. I’m tempted to let him have a go at it, but wonder how easy it will be to get the collar right. Is it simply a matter of exact measurements? My custom shirts were done in a factory, so my assumption is that this fellow should be at least as good as those workers (all these craftspeople, including this fellow, are South American in origin and training, for what that’s worth).

Also, where can I get decent collar/cuff lining? I’m not really trying to purchase enough to last the rest of my life, so a reasonably small buy is what I’m after.

One last question: the french cuffs on my custom shirt seem to have some design/measurement problem. After a handful of washings, the lining ripples as if there is just a bit too much lining for the size of the cuff. This is strange because it did no such thing (ripple) straight out of the box, so to speak. I have always laundered and ironed the shirt myself, following the maker’s instructions. Did the cotton shrink at a different rate than the lining? I’m sure the shop will replace the cuffs at no cost, but am curious as to why this happened in the first place. No such problem with the collar, nor have I ever had such a problem with any of my RTW double cuffs.

Before I leave off, let me say that I know some might ask why I just don’t continue with my local shop. I will, as well as try some of the New York shops. I am simply young and without deep pockets at the moment. At the same time, it is more appealing to pay the guy or gal on the floor of the factory directly, as it were.

[dopey]

. . .
Also, where can I get decent collar/cuff lining? I’m not really trying to purchase enough to last the rest of my life, so a reasonably small buy is what I’m after.

One last question: the french cuffs on my custom shirt seem to have some design/measurement problem. After a handful of washings, the lining ripples as if there is just a bit too much lining for the size of the cuff. This is strange because it did no such thing (ripple) straight out of the box, so to speak. I have always laundered and ironed the shirt myself, following the maker’s instructions. Did the cotton shrink at a different rate than the lining? I’m sure the shop will replace the cuffs at no cost, but am curious as to why this happened in the first place. No such problem with the collar, nor have I ever had such a problem with any of my RTW double cuffs.
. . .

Welcome rgulon. I hope I can help. I suspect you have identified the problem with your French cuffs already. The lining is probably not the best quality or else the shirt fabric shrinks too much. I know I cannot help you source materials, but perhaps others can.

On that point, I would like to point out that you may be off on a dangerous path. If you are on a limited budget, I think you are best off avoiding risks. Experimentation is a rich man’s game. I suspect you are not in a position to take a flyer on an $80 dollar shirt that may end up in the trash when you know you can get what you want at $150. If your local shop makes your current shirts right (including fixing the cuff problem) you may be better off sticking with them. I know the temptatiion to find a bargain is great, but consider how much you can afford to lose on the chase. Add to that the brain damage of sourcing your own materials and I am not sure you are headed in the right direction. Alternatively, give Carl Goldberg a/k/a Shirtmaven a/k/a CEGO a call. http://www.cego.com/ He is supposed to be well regarded and may be at your price point. He can certainly copy your collar shape and size.

[TVD]

There is a Welsh subsidiary of a Dutch conglomerate which weaves the interlinings. I cannot recall the name just now. The problem is that you will have to order quite a lot: the linings are rather cheap, but cutting and shipping it costs extra so the less you order, the more expensive it gets per shirt.

I have been through a similar situation, and my answer would be not to bother. A shirt is a hugely complex item, and if the local chap does not have the materials, he is unlikely to have the expertise to use them when you give some to him. You will either end up with an inferior poduct, or go through so many rectifications that you lose the desire ever to wear the shirt in question. Trust a burnt child!

Interlinings are a difficult thing. Obviously a lot depends on whether they have been pre-shrunk and the direction they have been sown in. But some shirt fabric has rather weird ways of shrinking, and even expensive bespoke shirts can suffer from problems. Feedback to the maker and free rectification should be the way.

[TVD]

The interlinings people I thought of are Ten Cate Permess (http://www.tencate.co.uk). They cater mostly for the big manufacturers, but I managed to wriggle retail quantities of unfused interlinings out of them.

[AlexanderKabbaz]

I’m tempted to let him have a go at it, but wonder how easy it will be to get the collar right. Is it simply a matter of exact measurements?

If you are willing to let him completely disassemble the collar (to a point where it cannot be reconstructed), he should have no problem making an exact copy. Without disassembly, there is no way for him to know the angles of the opposing curves of the band and the collar leaf. However, if he succeeds, he should be able to make an exact duplicate and attach it to the shirt with the destroyed collar ... assuming you can get the cloth.

One last question: the french cuffs on my custom shirt seem to have some design/measurement problem. After a handful of washings, the lining ripples as if there is just a bit too much lining for the size of the cuff. This is strange because it did no such thing (ripple) straight out of the box, so to speak. I have always laundered and ironed the shirt myself, following the maker’s instructions. Did the cotton shrink at a different rate than the lining?

It sounds as if the shirt has a synthetic interlining. Normally, with unshrunk cotton interlinings, the problem is exactly the opposite. In this case, the shell cloth has shrunk more than the interlining. Either the shell cloth is terrible or the interlining was overly preshrunk (both unlikely) or the interlining is not shrinking because it is synthetic. If you wish to purchase your own interlinings, try Steinlauf & Stoller at 239 W. 39th Street in Manhattan. They usually have a good selection of domestic ones.

As far as your quest for a simple shirt with a good collar and no pocket, I sympathise with your plight. The selection in RTW is attrocious!