Waist covering for 4x1 DB dinner jacket

[Concordia]

British black-tie is not nearly as "formal" as it is elsewhere. Stiff fronts, wing collars, etc., tend to get frowned upon.

[bond_and_beyond]

British black-tie is not nearly as "formal" as it is elsewhere. Stiff fronts, wing collars, etc., tend to get frowned upon.

But I believe it was quite common in the early days of the dinner suit, 20's / 30's, to wear it with a stiff fronted shirt with detachable wing collar? In my opinion, when done right, that is a superior look.

BB

[davidhuh]

Which of the gentlemen at Budd are you liasing with? Darren T was somewhat sceptical of my idea of having a stiff front shirt worn with a dinner suit, as he considers it a white tie only option.

Thanks,
BB

Dear BB,

I would recommend listening to Mr Darren. The Budd stiff front shirt really is made for white tie and nothing else
If you go for it, I almost guarantee that you end up wearing your black tie less often.

Cheers, David

[bond_and_beyond]

Dear BB,

I would recommend listening to Mr Darren. The Budd stiff front shirt really is made for white tie and nothing else
If you go for it, I almost guarantee that you end up wearing your black tie less often.

Cheers, David

Thanks David. They also have a "semi-stiff" option which I'm considering. Anyone familiar with that type of shirt front?

BB

[hectorm]

[hectorm]

[hectorm]

They also have a "semi-stiff" option which I'm considering.

I'm afraid that the semi stiff option is also intended for white tie wear (with an attached starched wing collar).
As a clue, please notice that these shirts -stiff or semi stiff- all have single cuffs, and you definitely want double "French" cuffs for you dinner jacket.

[hectorm]

I apologize for posting my message above three times. My laptop froze and my finger got impatient.

[Melcombe]

I entirely take the point that marcella or pintuck front shirts, with or without wing collars are intended for "formal wear" (read: black tie).

I do think however that the most elegant presentation of black tie, is when the chap wearing it looks thoroughly comfortable wearing it - from the manner in which he might sit or move. Stiffness of front - or collar - doesn't help this comfortable presentation.

On the other hand, a well-ironed, plain white day shirt does normally look, and indeed is, very comfortable. I also think it is a good foil for simply but expertly cut DJ and well-proportioned bow tie.

[hectorm]

I do think however that the most elegant presentation of black tie, is when the chap wearing it looks thoroughly comfortable wearing it ...... a well-ironed, plain white day shirt does normally look, and indeed is, very comfortable. I also think it is a good foil for simply but expertly cut DJ and well-proportioned bow tie.

I sympathize with the notion that elegance implies appearing comfortable while wearing your clothes. But I don´t share the idea that wearing a plain white shirt, even the most comfortable ever, is conducive to a more elegant presentation or that it´s the best partner for a DJ.
At the more intimate or informal occasions, nowadays I do certainly wear a plain shirt (with nice MoP buttons) matching my DB shawl collar DJ, but that shirt simply would not do it for my SB peak lapel worn with a vest. IMO this presentation has always required something more substantial at the bib, and an attached collar, and studs.

[bond_and_beyond]

I have several "soft" dinner shirts from T&A. I had a studded version with marcella front made some years ago and unfortunately it "rumples" a bit in the front. I've shared some photos before on this thread: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=11433&start=60

Given that my dinner suit is 20s / 30s inspired I want a studded shirt, and therefore the only satisfactory solution appears to be to have at least a semi-stiff bib. Hence I have approached Budd. I am awaiting their second turn of a sample shirt (only minor issues with the first) to get the pattern down before we can move on to the dinner shirts. So decision time is approaching.

I would still be very interested in bespokewrinkles experiences with Budd as mentioned earlier in the thread.

BB

[Concordia]

British black-tie is not nearly as "formal" as it is elsewhere. Stiff fronts, wing collars, etc., tend to get frowned upon.

But I believe it was quite common in the early days of the dinner suit, 20's / 30's, to wear it with a stiff fronted shirt with detachable wing collar? In my opinion, when done right, that is a superior look.

BB

Yes-- from the days when you were dressing down a bit from white tie, but had all that gear available for use. The UK is different than most places, though. I've passed through Bloomsbury in a taxi on a Wednesday evening and seen groups of adults going somewhere in black tie (with spouses) as though it were no special deal. Perhaps the same way that a preppie would wear a blazer to chapel. No need to spiff it up too much.

[Noble Savage]

It is one thing to see static pictures, it is another to see rumpled and unrumpled shirts in full technicolor.

An excellent collection of videos of black tie in action, well, at least of the spoken word variety, is to be found in Oxford Union videos, since black tie is consistently worn by the speakers and in the audience. You can clearly see both stiff and soft black tie shirts of many different kinds as well as waist coverings. Pardon the politics and history of it all.

Stiff shirt, stiff collar.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mm-Fwk3CrjI

Sort of regular shirt, sort of didn't care about the tie.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8kmdC1VBTI

[Luca]

The first one, Tolstoy's collar, is a beaut. Appropriately 'old skool', like the good count himself.

[andy57]

Given that my dinner suit is 20s / 30s inspired I want a studded shirt, and therefore the only satisfactory solution appears to be to have at least a semi-stiff bib. Hence I have approached Budd. I am awaiting their second turn of a sample shirt (only minor issues with the first) to get the pattern down before we can move on to the dinner shirts. So decision time is approaching.

I have three "dinner" shirts from Budd. Two are hand-pleated voile shirts and the third is my ruffle-fronted shirt. All three are cut by James MacAuslen. All three are wonderful and all three take studs, of course. Anyone who wears a regular shirt with visible buttons is beyond the pale. I have a couple of marcella-front shirts from Emma Willis but I've been thinking of have James cut me a marcella-front shirt to compare.