Your advice on picking a new pair of shoes.

[Sebastian Tombs]

Dear Sirs,

I recently bought a pair of Church's shoes which, alas, don't fit well at all. I thought they did, because they fit fine on the toes and heel, but after a couple of weeks they started to hurt. Being my first pair of such formal shoes (classical oxford style) I was quite uninitiated and thougth they would give a bit, but they did not. They hurt in the area where the big toe begins, where the shoe bends, actually. At every footstep then when the shoe bends the hard crease will impinge against my knuckle causing a lot of pain.

What do you think would solve my problem? A larger shoe (I now have 9.5F, I could go with 10) or a wider fit? I tried 10G and they look like goofy's shoes, too long, and they feel really large. I tried 10F and it was better but I am worried they would fit nice for a couple of weeks and then start to hurt again. This is an empasse! How could I do, in your opinion?

Moreover, about the make of the shoes.. Someone already suggested me to go for Crockett & Jones, since Church's quality does not justify their high tag price. Any other thoughts on the matter?

And.. would you go for a half or full brogue with a suit? I tend to consider suitable for this purpose only a black oxford..

Thank you very much for your very important help.


PS I think I need a sales assistant that really KNOWS what he's talking about. I am looking for a place where to go with confidence that all my doubts will be solved. Do you think C&J shop in Burlington Arcade can offer me this?

Forgot to state the budget: no more than £350.

[Wakefield]

Mr La Duca

I am afraid I cannot be much help with the first part of your problem. If your shoes are too tight you could take them to a cobbler to be stretched. However, from your description it could be that the shoes are in fact too large in certain areas thus allowing the deep creases to form which are causing you pain. In short I think you need expert, first-hand advice.

I have experienced excellent service in both the Burlington Arcade and Jermyn Street C&J shops and I am sure that if you decide to visit them you be equally satisfied. You can expect to be measured by someone who knows what they are doing and to receive good advice on the various styles and their fit characteristics.

I notice from a previous post that you live in Leeds. Unfortunately, I cannot recommend a good shoe shop in Leeds but Edwards of Manchester (telephone 0161 8341339) is an excellent shop if you have the time to visit. They stock a range of good quality brands including C&J and Church's and offer expert fitting and sound advice. They usually charge a slight premium over the C&J shops so check prices before setting off.

(As an aside, they may be able to help with your current shoes. Once when I was browsing in there I mentioned a problem with some new shoes that I was wearing which I had bought elsewhere. They took the problem shoe, eased the leather and had it back on my foot before I could protest).

Nearer home Shaw and Hallas in Huddersfield (01484 300670) and Rhodes-Wood in Harrogate (01423 505878) sell quality shoes but again check before visiting for exact details of their current ranges.

Finally, remember that the post-Christmas sales are nearly with us and if you can wait you may be able to pick up a bargain.

Regards

GAH

[lancepryor]

To take your second question first: I should think the folks at the C&J stores in London should be ablf to fit you properly. Make sure you try shoes made on several different lasts in order to see which one(s) is/are best for you. Also, if you do not feel that the C&J's are right for your feet, don't be pressured into buying them. You could also try E Green (above your budget, but sale will start after Christmas), and perhaps Lobb (ditto regarding sale). Other options would be New & Lingwood, although I believe the general concensus is that their shoes are overpriced, and Cleverley, whose RTW shoes are believed to be made by C&J, but who may have unique lasts and who, as bespoke shoemakers, at least ought to be able to fit you properly. There is also Foster & Sons (Jermyn St), who also sell private-label shoes made by a variety of the Northampton makers, and who often have good sale prices in January. Perhaps also Asprey (selling private label E Green?), who might have mark downs in January. I would also suggest you buy shoe trees to ensure the maximum life for the shoes, and that you bring your Church's with you so that they may see how they fit and what the problem is.

The problem you describe sounds like, if I understand it correctly, that the toe-box of the shoe is not high enough, so that when flexed it pushes down on the top of your foot. This might also be caused by other fit problems, but not being a fitting expert I am not certain.

In general, in fitting shoes, the most important things are: heel to joint (i.e. big toe joint/"ball) length, joint girth (i.e. around the balls of your feet), toe space, heel width, and instep girth. A problem with current RTW measurement is that, in many cases, they start with overall length rather than the heel to ball length which, depending on the length of your toes vs. the rest of your foot, may lead to a misfit of the heel to ball length. Further, the fitting process uses a simple width measurement (i.e. across the balls of your feet), when a girth/volume measure is really what matters. This fact is why two shoes, even from the same maker (and certainly from different makers), may fit differently even if they have the same 'width,' as the height of the last and hence the girth/volume of the last may different. These challenges, among many others, is why it is valuable to be served by a highly capable shoe fitter. While many of us are blessed with fairly average sized and shaped feet, and thus can get away with wearing a wide variety of shoes, there are others (perhaps including you) who need to search hard for the appropriate last(s) to fit your feet; in the latter case, those who can afford to do so often opt for bespoke, as the last is made to reflect the 3-dimensional reality of your feet, rather than a simple two-dimensional measurement.

I would think for suits, a half brogue is considered dressier and more appropriate, although in this day and age, either would certainly be regarded as sufficiently dressy by the vast majority of people -- though perhaps not by members of the LL.

Good luck.

[Sebastian Tombs]

Dear Wakefield, dear Lance,

thank you very much for your advice. It is really on point and most invaluable. I really appreciated your contributions. I will treasure your words and take a bit of time to find a pair of shoes that really fit me well. I will keep you updated on the matter, maybe I will be able to share some further knowledge regarding the fitting process, along with some tips on who proved to be the more willing and better educated folks.
Warmest Regards.

[manicturncoat]

I was by chance in the Church store in Paris the other day and was shocked by the prices(€450 on average). I have bought many in the past but it has been several years since I purchased a shoe from Church. Although the quality is good, they are overpriced, especially when compared to superior shoes like C&J in the same price range.

[Sebastian Tombs]

Could the reason for such an increase in prices be the acquisition of Church's by the Prada Group? It seems like we bloody Italians can't resist the appeal of robbing people anytime we have the chance

[Guest]

It's a couple of years that Church's is no more property of Prada group.

[Collarmelton]

Dear Mr. La Duca:

The pair of Church's I bought four years ago turned me off Church's forever. Just today I passed their New York store, and marvelled at how they have achieved a Holy Anti-Trinity of sorts: inelegant lasts, middling quality and high price. If you would like an alternative to Church's, but do not wish to pay what a pair of EGs costs (though you might consider gritting your teeth and doing so anyway), the high end Alfred Sargents approximate what Church's used to be, with the added benefit of looking like traditional English shoes, at a reasonable price. Several of the "F" fitting models may have sufficient room up front not to pinch, as did your Church's. I am pleased with C&J's handgrade range (available on Pediwear's and Bodiley's websites, and all over London), but these cost much more, and the 337 last, which is narrower, might pinch. There is a plain cap- toed oxford in this range called the Whitehall, which is on a different last and has a more generous fit in the front.

You may also wish to consider Tricker's, which are very well made and are good value for money. Specifically, take a look at the "1829" range, which has a contemporary square-toed last and is a departure from the decidely dowdy shoes this company typically offers. This range also has a fitting "5", which is roomy, and may alleviate your pinching problem.

[bengal-stripe]

Sales in London will begin in most shops immediately after Christmas (I believe some will start on Boxing Day, Monday 26th), by January 3rd all shops will have a sale on. All the shoe shops will offer sales merchandise, usually about 1/3 off.

Retail times are hard, a number of stores (Church’s, New & Lingwood, Aquascutum) have their sale on already. It’s pretty unheard of to start the sale before Christmas.

Rolf

[Gus]

I had the same problem with a pair of Cheaney shoes hurting as you describe. Really, really hurt. But it did go away after a while, once the shoes were broken in a bit. You might want to try wearing them round the house for an hour at a time for a while and see if the problem goes away. Know you shouldn't have to, but you might save a decent but currently uncomortable pair of shoes.