The Traveling Tailor
Yes - I did once. About 20 years ago.
Mr Raja of the eponymous 'Raja Fashions'.
Cloth wasn't too bad, but lining was truly horrid. Fit was OK (being charitable). Cost on a par with mid range off the rail - and all fairly convenient. Lasted about 3 years of train journeys and office drudge before departing to a charity shop.
Glad to have tried it, but not to repeat. I know several folk who have tried Mr Raja or similar - and then moved on to something more impressive.
A gateway to bespoke? (a bit like crab dim-sum can lead to a full-on lobster thermidor addiction, maybe...)
Mr Raja of the eponymous 'Raja Fashions'.
Cloth wasn't too bad, but lining was truly horrid. Fit was OK (being charitable). Cost on a par with mid range off the rail - and all fairly convenient. Lasted about 3 years of train journeys and office drudge before departing to a charity shop.
Glad to have tried it, but not to repeat. I know several folk who have tried Mr Raja or similar - and then moved on to something more impressive.
A gateway to bespoke? (a bit like crab dim-sum can lead to a full-on lobster thermidor addiction, maybe...)
UC, are you including in this category the SR firms and alumni who travel?
If so: I've used both Poole (seeing Phillip Parker and more recently Alex Cooke) and Steed (Edwin and Matthew DeBoise). In both cases it's kind of half-and-half for me, since I see whichever tailor has work in progress in London at least once a year as well.
My results have been good but frustratingly slow given the lag time between fittings. Getting the pattern dialed in and adjusting hitches in the coat making have taken far longer than I would have expected. I would have loved to find a local tailor of equivalent skill, but Joseph Centofanti died before we could do more than some alterations and there's no one any more convenient to me than the New York/London visits of Steed. They are now doing really lovely work, but it requires patience. I've just taken final delivery on one jacket and have four still in progress, two of which were started more than a year ago. I hesitate to start another until some of these are actually available to wear . . . .
If so: I've used both Poole (seeing Phillip Parker and more recently Alex Cooke) and Steed (Edwin and Matthew DeBoise). In both cases it's kind of half-and-half for me, since I see whichever tailor has work in progress in London at least once a year as well.
My results have been good but frustratingly slow given the lag time between fittings. Getting the pattern dialed in and adjusting hitches in the coat making have taken far longer than I would have expected. I would have loved to find a local tailor of equivalent skill, but Joseph Centofanti died before we could do more than some alterations and there's no one any more convenient to me than the New York/London visits of Steed. They are now doing really lovely work, but it requires patience. I've just taken final delivery on one jacket and have four still in progress, two of which were started more than a year ago. I hesitate to start another until some of these are actually available to wear . . . .
I've used Steed for several years with generally good results. As others have said, the process requires patience. I have recently used Steven Hitchcock, too, and I have high hopes for that commission. All my DB suits are made by Hemrajani Brothers, out of Southern California. And, finally, in February, I shall see Edward Sexton (probably, actually, Dominic Sebag-Montefiore) in San Francisco. Apart from the time lag, I've had no real concerns related to the tailors coming to me rather than me going to them.
I have had similar frustrations with the delivery time issue but there are additional issues, big and small.
And I think that these issues also apply to The Traveling Client as well as tailor.
First, for the life of me I can’t figure out how you can get a good suit if the tailor making your suit does not see you. This example is the methodology of Napoli Su Misura. You never see the tailor!! Mina measures you and she is not a tailor. You are measured, photographed, video taped. But the cutter, the maker, never see you except in a photo. How can they know your dimensions?? How does that work?
That method is akin to MTM it seems to me; your lifeless dimensions are sent to a factory in Italy. Somebody who has never seen you cuts the cloth, someone else sews it together and voila, you have a suit. But can it work? Or rather, work satisfactorily?
How do they iron in the shrinking and manipulate the cloth, etc. if the maker has only seen you in a photo? It’s a little bit spooky. That’s one issue.
Another issue is that in the traveling tailor model, your suit comes back 3-4 months later for a first fitting. Adjustments are marked up, and back it goes to the tailor’s shop in England or Italy or wherever, and then comes back again but they didn’t get it right: they fixed this, but not that; when they fixed this, they introduced a new problem elsewhere. So back it goes again.
And this repeats again and again. I have accepted unsatisfactory results because,if I had,to go through another cycle of this, I would likely jump from the 30th floor of the traveling tailor’s hotel room. There is just so much punishment a man can be asked to take. And pay for.
It is similar for me when I am the Traveling Client, though slightly different.
If, for example, I am having a suit made in London, then I have to travel there 2 or 3 times.
At least the cutter will see and fit me. Big improvement.
But I have to fly to London 2 or 3 times. And I don’t live nearby; $$$.
And I know from experience that even after 3X visit, I would need to return again for the fit problems that did not initially, but will show up after I receive and wear the suit. Again, $$$. Another trip to London. A long trip, BTW.
Who wants that?? Not me. It takes the pleasure out of bespoke and makes it a frustrating chore. That’s what it has become for me and that’s why I have more or less quit bespoke.
And that’s also why I am thinking of MTM, although I know that is not optimal but I am guessing that once the fit is dialed in, that I would be able to get a suit once a year by calling my tailor and placing my order. That would avoid the travel, the multiple fittings, the frustration of long wait.
There’s a final aspect, but that is personal to me: the bespoke process has to be a pleasure and personal and sociable.
I feel crestfallen when I leave a hotel room after a 30 minute fitting with a traveling tailor..
Too impersonal. Too objectified. Too industrial, assembly line feeling as the next Client is impatiently waiting downstairs in the lobby for his turn. Blah.
The most pleasureable bespoke experiences I have had were in Italy : in Naples, in Rome, in Florence and Milano. These Sartoria are like a club. The whiskey is laid out. The espresso is hot, delivered straight from the cafe next door. The armchairs are comfortable. People come and go and the people and clients you meet and sartorial conversations you have are a pleasure.
Old Henry’s previous clubhouse in Manhattan sounds to have had a similar vibe.
It is for people interested in bespoke, not in a hurry , enjoying the process, and waiting with great expectations for the beautiful suit being sewn for them in the next room.
It is like the old tailor shop which you might have heard described of Gennaro Rubinacci in Naples a long time ago.
30 fittings? At least.
And I think that these issues also apply to The Traveling Client as well as tailor.
First, for the life of me I can’t figure out how you can get a good suit if the tailor making your suit does not see you. This example is the methodology of Napoli Su Misura. You never see the tailor!! Mina measures you and she is not a tailor. You are measured, photographed, video taped. But the cutter, the maker, never see you except in a photo. How can they know your dimensions?? How does that work?
That method is akin to MTM it seems to me; your lifeless dimensions are sent to a factory in Italy. Somebody who has never seen you cuts the cloth, someone else sews it together and voila, you have a suit. But can it work? Or rather, work satisfactorily?
How do they iron in the shrinking and manipulate the cloth, etc. if the maker has only seen you in a photo? It’s a little bit spooky. That’s one issue.
Another issue is that in the traveling tailor model, your suit comes back 3-4 months later for a first fitting. Adjustments are marked up, and back it goes to the tailor’s shop in England or Italy or wherever, and then comes back again but they didn’t get it right: they fixed this, but not that; when they fixed this, they introduced a new problem elsewhere. So back it goes again.
And this repeats again and again. I have accepted unsatisfactory results because,if I had,to go through another cycle of this, I would likely jump from the 30th floor of the traveling tailor’s hotel room. There is just so much punishment a man can be asked to take. And pay for.
It is similar for me when I am the Traveling Client, though slightly different.
If, for example, I am having a suit made in London, then I have to travel there 2 or 3 times.
At least the cutter will see and fit me. Big improvement.
But I have to fly to London 2 or 3 times. And I don’t live nearby; $$$.
And I know from experience that even after 3X visit, I would need to return again for the fit problems that did not initially, but will show up after I receive and wear the suit. Again, $$$. Another trip to London. A long trip, BTW.
Who wants that?? Not me. It takes the pleasure out of bespoke and makes it a frustrating chore. That’s what it has become for me and that’s why I have more or less quit bespoke.
And that’s also why I am thinking of MTM, although I know that is not optimal but I am guessing that once the fit is dialed in, that I would be able to get a suit once a year by calling my tailor and placing my order. That would avoid the travel, the multiple fittings, the frustration of long wait.
There’s a final aspect, but that is personal to me: the bespoke process has to be a pleasure and personal and sociable.
I feel crestfallen when I leave a hotel room after a 30 minute fitting with a traveling tailor..
Too impersonal. Too objectified. Too industrial, assembly line feeling as the next Client is impatiently waiting downstairs in the lobby for his turn. Blah.
The most pleasureable bespoke experiences I have had were in Italy : in Naples, in Rome, in Florence and Milano. These Sartoria are like a club. The whiskey is laid out. The espresso is hot, delivered straight from the cafe next door. The armchairs are comfortable. People come and go and the people and clients you meet and sartorial conversations you have are a pleasure.
Old Henry’s previous clubhouse in Manhattan sounds to have had a similar vibe.
It is for people interested in bespoke, not in a hurry , enjoying the process, and waiting with great expectations for the beautiful suit being sewn for them in the next room.
It is like the old tailor shop which you might have heard described of Gennaro Rubinacci in Naples a long time ago.
30 fittings? At least.
Dear Uppercase,uppercase wrote:I have had similar frustrations with the delivery time issue but there are additional issues, big and small.
And I think that these issues also apply to The Traveling Client as well as tailor.
First, for the life of me I can’t figure out how you can get a good suit if the tailor making your suit does not see you. This example is the methodology of Napoli Su Misura. You never see the tailor!! Mina measures you and she is not a tailor. You are measured, photographed, video taped. But the cutter, the maker, never see you except in a photo. How can they know your dimensions?? How does that work?
That method is akin to MTM it seems to me; your lifeless dimensions are sent to a factory in Italy. Somebody who has never seen you cuts the cloth, someone else sews it together and voila, you have a suit. But can it work? Or rather, work satisfactorily?
there seems to me too much black and white in your perception. I don't know Napoli Su Misura. But if you work with Rubinacci, it is pretty much the same. You hardly see the tailors, unless you travel to Napoli or Milano (which I do). But I never thought that having the tailor himself present was an absolute necessity.
When I worked with Thomas Mahon, it was similar. He is a cutter, not a tailor. During a fitting, he doesn't do more than what Rubinacci does. We did fittings in London, I didn't have to wait as much as somebody who lives in the States and has to wait for the next visit. But with my chaotic agenda, it was often difficult to find a suitable moment for a fitting. I prefer to have a tailor who has a shop where I can visit, this is a lot easier to plan for me.
Getting a bespoke suit is not for people who are in a rush anyway. So take your time. What you can arrange with some tailors is going there for a week and have 2 fittings. If properly planned in advance, and cloth selection done before, you could even walk away with your suit after a week.
Cheers, David
-
Leonard Logsdail
- Posts: 180
- Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:56 am
- Location: New York
- Contact:
As someone who was, in the past, a prolific traveling tailor, I can give some insight to this thread.
When I lived in London I travelled all over Europe selling suits. I then moved my attention to the US and, before moving here, was on the road for over 4 months every year.
Sometimes, it really depends on the attitude of the visiting tailor whether the experience is pleasant and successful or not. But having a suit made this way is more a state of mind than simply a suit. You have to be prepared to find the right tailor. You have to be prepared to wait for your garment. You have to be prepared for extra time for alterations. You have to be prepared for some import duties, too. Once you are prepared for this, then you are prepared for the long haul.
This long haul is not too bad, really. Firstly, ask yourself, are all you doing between fittings and delivery is sitting and waiting for it? No. You are getting on with your life. The fitting actually come round quite quickly. But it's more than that. You are building a relationship with your tailor that should be satisfying both sartorially and personally. Both of which are extremely important and should make the wait worthwhile and future garments faster to receive.
I agree with above sentiments about not having a salesman measure and someone else cut. You really need to see the man who will cut and fit your suit. Your chances of success are increased when you do. I also believe your chances of success are increased when the person you see not only cuts and fits your suit, but also owns the business. His incentive to keep a client happy, cut down on unnecessary alterations and the time between ordering and delivery is much greater than someone who simply works for the tailoring house. He will get paid the same whether the suits fits or not. This is not the same for the cutter/owner. So I would recommend anyone going this route to look for such person.
A bespoke suit is not something that should be rushed. Your focus should be on the quality and relationship more than speed. Speed in delivery is not something you should expect when your tailor visits only occasionally and should not be part of your decision making. If it is, then I fear you will be disappointed.
Leonard
When I lived in London I travelled all over Europe selling suits. I then moved my attention to the US and, before moving here, was on the road for over 4 months every year.
Sometimes, it really depends on the attitude of the visiting tailor whether the experience is pleasant and successful or not. But having a suit made this way is more a state of mind than simply a suit. You have to be prepared to find the right tailor. You have to be prepared to wait for your garment. You have to be prepared for extra time for alterations. You have to be prepared for some import duties, too. Once you are prepared for this, then you are prepared for the long haul.
This long haul is not too bad, really. Firstly, ask yourself, are all you doing between fittings and delivery is sitting and waiting for it? No. You are getting on with your life. The fitting actually come round quite quickly. But it's more than that. You are building a relationship with your tailor that should be satisfying both sartorially and personally. Both of which are extremely important and should make the wait worthwhile and future garments faster to receive.
I agree with above sentiments about not having a salesman measure and someone else cut. You really need to see the man who will cut and fit your suit. Your chances of success are increased when you do. I also believe your chances of success are increased when the person you see not only cuts and fits your suit, but also owns the business. His incentive to keep a client happy, cut down on unnecessary alterations and the time between ordering and delivery is much greater than someone who simply works for the tailoring house. He will get paid the same whether the suits fits or not. This is not the same for the cutter/owner. So I would recommend anyone going this route to look for such person.
A bespoke suit is not something that should be rushed. Your focus should be on the quality and relationship more than speed. Speed in delivery is not something you should expect when your tailor visits only occasionally and should not be part of your decision making. If it is, then I fear you will be disappointed.
Leonard
+1A bespoke suit is not something that should be rushed. Your focus should be on the quality and relationship more than speed.
Thanks Lenny!
Cheers
Surely its about how you plan your timetable?
If you know the schedule suggests that a first fitting in month A will lead to a second in month J, a third in month y and a final in month A+1, then you have a tempo which will govern your expectations................
If you know the schedule suggests that a first fitting in month A will lead to a second in month J, a third in month y and a final in month A+1, then you have a tempo which will govern your expectations................
-
- Information
-
Who is online
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 21 guests