Advice wanted: re-building a wardrobe

[old henry]

hmmmmm

[belimad]

hmmmmm

ok, I'll bite. Say more, please?

[culverwood]

Give the tailor a chance - wait until you see the finished article. That is why I hate the practice of posting fitting photos and asking for comments.

If it's no good when the tailor hands it over by all means criticise him.

[belimad]

Give the tailor a chance - wait until you see the finished article. That is why I hate the practice of posting fitting photos and asking for comments.

If it's no good when the tailor hands it over by all means criticise him.

I definitely agree with this approach, and I have to say I am pretty happy so far with what I’m seeing. Maybe my untrained eye is missing critical details, but I am happy to wait until it’s done.

[Screaminmarlon]

I'm no expert and I do not want to raise issues, but I think it's the last pic that squeals a bit, because you have the shoulders done and a messy back, more so than in the basted stage pics.
You don't want to see what happens below the left shoulder in particular. But I might be mistaken

[aston]

Where these photos taken after the 2nd fitting, or was it still in progress?

[alden]

I have a couple questions and some advice:

Are you wearing jeans in these pictures or are they the trousers being fitted for the suit. If they are the fitting, then the trousers need more rise, an inch at least, maybe 2 inches!

I take it that in the last picture with the waves in the back, the jacket is not fastened with the tailor's needle. You need to show us fitting pictures with the jacket fastened.

You are a big man. My impression is you are stuffed into these clothes. They seem small on you and too constructed. You look encased in the suit. I think the fronts are much too small and out of balance with the back. (I would solicit Old Henry's view here.) It looks like they used a slim cut stock pattern for you with a slim front and chest.

You have breadth and mass, you can lose a good deal of the padding and stuffing.

So more rise in the trousers, longer jacket, more cloth on the front, softer construction, wider lapels, less bellied lapels...that is what I see so far.

I always go over my fittings with my tailors carefully and make all changes early (in the first fitting if possible.) When the clothes are finished, its much too late. You have lost all the benefit of custom clothing and reduced to alterations as you would in RTW.

Cheers

[belimad]

Where these photos taken after the 2nd fitting, or was it still in progress?

still in progress

[belimad]

I have a couple questions and some advice:

Are you wearing jeans in these pictures or are they the trousers being fitted for the suit. If they are the fitting, then the trousers need more rise, an inch at least, maybe 2 inches!

I take it that in the last picture with the waves in the back, the jacket is not fastened with the tailor's needle. You need to show us fitting pictures with the jacket fastened.

You are a big man. My impression is you are stuffed into these clothes. They seem small on you and too constructed. You look encased in the suit. I think the fronts are much too small and out of balance with the back. (I would solicit Old Henry's view here.) It looks like they used a slim cut stock pattern for you with a slim front and chest.

You have breadth and mass, you can lose a good deal of the padding and stuffing.

So more rise in the trousers, longer jacket, more cloth on the front, softer construction, wider lapels, less bellied lapels...that is what I see so far.

I always go over my fittings with my tailors carefully and make all changes early (in the first fitting if possible.) When the clothes are finished, its much too late. You have lost all the benefit of custom clothing and reduced to alterations as you would in RTW.

Cheers

Thanks Michael - I had missed these comments for some reason, until now. I really appreciate them.

I am wearing jeans in the first fitting, and the suits' trousers in the second (which are indeed much higher rise). The longer jacket is also something we discussed with Russell so that should be there in the next iterations. As for more cloth, softer construction, wider, less bellied lapels... it will need to go onto the next suit unfortunately!

[alden]

Belimad

I created the London Lounge expressly for you. There are resources here always available to you. And we simply want you to look the best you can and to be treated fairly in what can be a confusing process.

Be patient when patience is earned and not so patient when it is taken for granted.

But above all, have fun!

Cheers

[uppercase]

This thread is chock full of interesting situations and observations.

Let’s start with this quote from Yukio Akamine who is being interviewed here by For the Discerning Few:

“FTDF: Is it not the responsibility of the customer to have taste and culture? Some people dress in bespoke but have no taste; they ask for ugly things, the tailors cannot be blamed for that.

Yukio Akamine: I agree with you. It is the customer’s responsibility, but there are not many great customers anymore.

There are very few bad tailors but there are lots of bad customers. Brummel said: « It is the customer who makes the tailor. The tailor absolutely cannot make the client. It is the client who makes the tailor great. » Unfortunately we are losing those kinds of customers.”

A successful bespoke project is the customer’s responsibility...could this be true.?

Now allow me to refer to Belimad’s posts above and photos just for discussion; no offense Belimad.!

Belimad reported all along that he was happy with how the Graham Browne project was going, and that the first and second fittings were going well. Then he posted photos and asked for comments:

Alden deconstructed the faults of Belimad’s coat; nothing more needs to be said on that front: basically everything was wrong. Everything. And Belimad reported back that Alden’s corrections could only be introduced in a future second coat. Of course.
The first bespoke coat gone wrong and not salvageable.

So what happened here in this illustrated bespoke drama??

Is it the customer’s fault??
Is it the tailor’s fault??
Is it not spending enough money??
Is it wanting bespoke done fast?
Does Belimad return to GB for another go?

What happened and why??
And what to do now?

[Screaminmarlon]

You learn through experience: going to a good taylor makes the first step easier, but everyone has to develop his own taste or sense of style.
I think there isn’t “The” right suit for Belimad without his own satisfaction or appreciation, otherwise he would be wearing someone else’s suit.

[old henry]

I want belimad to have a good pattern. A pattern that will make for a comfortable elegant suit for him. He would look so great in a well fitted suit.

[alden]

Yukio Akamine: I agree with you. It is the customer’s responsibility, but there are not many great customers anymore.

Akamine and I used to discuss these things for hours. It was great fun. He is such a very cultivated, elegant man, a very very rare bird indeed. I hope to see him soon.

And yes I have written three quintillion times that "there are very few bad tailors but a lot of bad customers."And it is true. But we want to make these bad customers into better customers into good customers and into elegant customers. Good (honest) tailors are a great help in this regard.

Belimad is a good example. He has everything to wear suits brilliantly. He has a figure for double breasted flannel suits that would make a Cagney outta him. We are trying to help him onto that path. It is our responsibility to do so those of us who have been blessed with great grandads, uncles, great tailors and great cloth.

So lets do it. In this case we have a novice client and an iffy tailor, a disastrous martini indeed. There was little hope for success. But he was in a hurry because of his job and that is understandable. My grandfather used to tell me, "Never be in a hurry for anything!" It was a lesson that served me so well. It is a fundamental lesson of life. And it is a fundamental lesson in custom clothing.

And no matter what your circumstances are, when you are starting out on a budget, engage the best tailor you can afford and have one suit made every year. In the meantime you will have already made some shirts, so save your money and get a good pattern made. I have been in custom clothing for forty years, you guys, and I have 40 suits...one a year.

(UC, I figure this will be continued, so I will just pause here for a rest. )

Cheers

Cheers

[bond_and_beyond]

Belimad,

From what I recall you have ordered two suits from GB, and I would therefore suggest that you take the suggestions on this thread, in particular Alden's, with you to Russel to be used for your second suit.

I would also suggest showing him the photos oldhenry has posted on Facebook, reproduced below, on how a coat on a larger framed person can look when done well.

My experience with Russel is that he listens to input so well worth a shot.

Untitled by Bond Beyond, on Flickr

Untitled by Bond Beyond, on Flickr

BB