New English Bespoke Shirtmaker: Wil Whiting

[Russell]

A director of design at a large graphic arts firm used to be active on another online "style" forum. His Photoshop technique was quite extraordinary, and he combined this skill with a deadly, penetrating wit to skewer and deflate many a forum member.

This seems an appropriate moment to share one of his works, featuring an old image of me that he edited and then inserted into the far left of this photograph.

You don't do a bad montage yourself - I never fail to smile at this



Regards
Russell

[davidhuh]

Gentlemen,

now this thread has become really interesting, and I'm pleased to see that we are now discussing fit, proportion and collars

BB, before heading to a new shirt maker, it might be worthwhile to invest a little bit of time with your existing ones. I see there is room for improvement with the pictures you posted some days ago.

Cheers, David

[bond_and_beyond]

Gentlemen,

now this thread has become really interesting, and I'm pleased to see that we are now discussing fit, proportion and collars

BB, before heading to a new shirt maker, it might be worthwhile to invest a little bit of time with your existing ones. I see there is room for improvement with the pictures you posted some days ago.

Cheers, David

Thanks, I intend to discuss with Budd next time I see them (even though they did their best to design a collar to match my face already). I'm thinking I'll ask them to reduce the spread, increase the tie space and maybe make the collar a bit deeper. Though Mr Tiernan warned me that my relatively short neck can't take much more collar depth.

BB

[Concordia]

London makers are often reluctant to push collar height. It wasn’t until I had Napoli su Misura make it work that I was able to insist.

They come to London a few times a year, BTW.

[alden]

BB

How is the fit of the shirts? Is it as wavy as Biscayne Bay in force 9 winds like the shirt at the beginning of this thread?

A shirt should fit your body like a glove without being tight anywhere and afford you complete freedom of movement. And there should be no waves and folds of fabric anywhere, especially under or around the collar. You should feel the high tight arm hole as well. Do you?

Your Mr Tiernan has likely heard of the Duke of Windsor and might know what a Windsor collar is, if not, take a picture and the measurements I gave you. You need at least .5 cm more collar height as well.

Cheers

[Rob O]

Just re-reading this thread with enjoyment. I’m currently waiting for a commission of two button-down shirts from Luca Avitabile, one of which is in LL linen. I commissioned two shirts before reading Michael’s advice regarding commencing with just one. I tried to incorporate some of the key aspects of the thread’s advice into the collar shape, although these shirts will be destined for sans-cravate days. I’ll post the final result when it eventually surfaces.

[alden]

RobO

Very good to know that the reading has been enjoyable and helpful.

I have always found that a well designed collar will look just as well with a tie as without one. So one really does not need a "dress" collar and an informal one: if the collar is well done, its the same one.

These are the same design collar:

DSC_8612 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

8709 final by The London Lounge, on Flickr

Speaking of the LL linen book, I incorporated a lot of colors that are particularly flattering for most mens' complexions, especially ones that feature combinations of white and light blues. Sometimes the white will be more prominent than the blues and sometimes the reverse will be true, but this combination flowering up to cover the neck in a well made collar brings light that does wonders for our faces. Just another reason to have a substantial, well cut and well made shirt collar.

Cheers

[Rob O]

Thanks Michael, yes, the linen was a sky blue and white fine pinstripe. Perfect for my complexion. Those shirt collars of yours are stunning. I have a few double button collared shirts that achieve the right rise and framing but allow no room for a tie. I guess it’s something to strive for.

One point of note though: I had to plead for a more pronounced collar stance. My tailors were initially quite reluctant to comply. I’m not impugning them by the way, I expect that they don’t receive such a request very regularly. I had taken the trouble to wear my double button collar RTW shirt which helped them visualise.

[alden]

The double button collar creates a nice effect and should not be a bit more difficult to make (other than the second hand sewn buttonhole.)

Here again you can see how a well cut collar works with or without a tie. The added size of the collar frames the face and brings light to it (if the shirt fabric choice is a good one.)

23833354483_08acfe147e_o by The London Lounge, on Flickr

IMG_0755 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

IMG_0752 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

Most men wear collars that simply vanish; and being so small, they serve little purpose.

The shirt collar is not an after thought, it is a prime consideration where all good shirtmaking starts.

IMG_1446 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

Cheers

[Rob O]

Thanks Michael,

I can't see the first picture - maybe the link is faulty. I see that your tailor has relocated the buttonhole from the standard RTW position. It has moved down and away from the edge. Is this what facilitates the additional tie space?

[alden]

The link on the first picture is OK. I can see it. Try refreshing.

Yes, the buttonholes are placed differently when there is tie space provided for in the collar.

My shirts have between 1.5-2.5 cms tie space. The amount you will choose will be a function of the knot size you wear and on the size of the collar overall.

Cheers

[old henry]

Unlike Mr. Alden's collar above , most shirt collar stands today are far too low. And they button even lower. It's a weak gooseneck look. A 2" collar stand is often called for. I had shirts made only once by Seawaldt & Bauman and the old man taught me this. I have a long neck.

Jacket collar stands are usually too low also. They must meet the shirt collar.1-1/4" collar stand is fine for a shorter neck but 1-1/2" to 1-3/4 is often called for.

[alden]

Jacket collar stands are usually too low also. They must meet the shirt collar.1-1/4" collar stand is fine for a shorter neck but 1-1/2" to 1-3/4 is often called for.
old henry

Frank, great point. That is why I have always suggested guys get their shirts dialed in first. If a man has a long neck and needs a 2" shirt collar stand, then he and his tailor will know to fit him a 1 1/2" collar stand for the jacket. In doing so, he will have 1/2" of the collar showing above the jacket's collar. That half inch envelopes his face and frames it adding light through the shirt's color.

And by having the proper collar stand height on the shirt, there is no risk of the hyper goose neck look!

Screen_Shot_2016-05-31_at_5.06.18_PM.0.0 by The London Lounge, on Flickr

Cheers

[uppercase]

The Sleevehead on Alden’s camel herringbone coat seems unusual.
Is that a standard construction ?

Also, wondering here, if Alden recommends 1/2 inch shirt collar showing, these pics of his look more like 1.5 inch. Same issue with high-stance of Pr. Michael collars: they look like 1.5 inch.

Is there some sort of guideline on how much collar showing or is it a flexible matter?

[alden]

The Sleevehead on Alden’s camel herringbone coat seems unusual.
Is that a standard construction ?

Spalla camicia.

As regards how much collar should show, it depends a lot on a man's features and build. Large, long necked men with large heads might be able to wear more collar than a very fine, small headed man. But as a general rule, I would much rather see men err on the side of too much collar than not enough. You will almost never see a man showing too much shirt collar and almost always see too much shirt cuff or none at all. Once again, craft your shirts first, then get your jackets made to fit you and your shirt!

Cheers