New English Bespoke Shirtmaker: Wil Whiting

"The brute covers himself, the rich man and the fop adorn themselves, the elegant man dresses!"

-Honore de Balzac

andreyb
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 8:18 am

alden wrote:Could be its just an awful photo, but I frankly cannot understand why any tailor would post such a photo. If the young man does not take the time to set up a proper photo of his work with a good camera and a tripod, will he take the time and will he have the patience to craft a shirt? Guys, making a great shirt is devilishly hard to do.
This photo is taken from the young man's instagram -- which we all usually consider as a hobby / vanity fair, not a business tool full of professional-quality photos. His web-site features different photos.

Re: trial shirt. Oh, where is Alex Kabbaz when you need him! :evil:

Re: Wil Whiting. You guys (or at least many of you) are apparently didn't got my point. I didn't said "here is a new shirtmaker to end all other shirtmakers". What I see in Mr Whiting is:
a) A fresh young face in UK bespoke shirtmaking world -- good!
b) Someone who not only follows an established formula, but also tries to introduce (reintroduce?) new things -- great!
c) These "new things" are not fashion experiments or cost-cutting exercises, but something aimed to improve the standard of fit and make -- amazing!

Yes, like all of us, he has to prove his merit in his chosen field. I wish him the best.

Andrey
alden
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 9:57 am

We need an explanation as to these developments.


:D (OK I'll play)

Here’s the best explanation direct from my own wardrobe:

Over half of my tailored clothing collection is British and all of the cloth it is made of is British.

All of my shoes are British.

All of my hats, and umbrellas are British.

All of my knitwear is British.

All of my ties are British. (Yes, Marinella ties are British.)

Not a single of my 150 piece bespoke shirt collection is British.

British industry makes fine shirts and it has and will continue to do just fine without my custom.

I just found much better elsewhere.

But back to my point:

The shirt's collar is the soul of a great shirt. The very first question out of a new clients mouth when visiting a tailor should be "let me see your collars!" Tiny collars with no tie space should send you out the door in no time flat.

How many times over the last decades have I seen men wearing thousands of dollars of custom clothing who wind up looking like hobos because their shirtmaker has let them down. Even a moments perusal of the current set of the web’s fashion gadflies will confirm this calamity.

I have written tomes, published articles in prestigious journals and filmed full length feature videos on the subject of the nexus of shirt collar and tie. To no avail…the hobo look is impervious to critique.

And yet, makers like T&A did make awesome collars once upon a time, for Prince Michael in the 80s. They were maybe a bit exaggerated for most tastes, but I would take princely over hobo in a heart’s beat.

The shirt is the most important first step in bespoke. Neglect this fundamental lesson at your peril. And the shirt’s collar is the most important first step in shirts. So pay close attention to its crafting. And the second most important feature in a proper shirt is a high arm hole, yes, just like in your coats. If the shirt does not have a high, properly sized and shaped armhole, it works against the comfort of the coat and nullifies it. And few glorified MTM shirts are made with correct armholes. The computer doesn't know how to make them.

Tiny collars are for tiny men with tiny style.

And tiny, splayed open collars with no tie space where the tie’s knot is crushed, hidden and otherwise molested from each side are nothing short of a sartorial atrocity.

And tiny, splayed open collars with no tie space where the tie’s knot is crushed, hidden and otherwise molested from each side that are too small and makes its wearer resemble a blow fish complete with bulging eyes…well, you get the idea…that is what I normally see you all wearing. Burn the shirts and start over.

Cheers

PS: As regards the degree of openness in a collar: if you make a mistake, make it on the side of being too closed. The wide open so called and falsely called “French” collar that look like twin, thin helicopter blades is the ultimate in arriviste bad taste.
andreyb
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 11:41 am

Michael, what about this one?

https://scontent-vie1-1.cdninstagram.co ... 5648_n.jpg

Just curious...

Andrey
alden
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 12:16 pm

Andrey

The collar size is good. It needs more tie space and the collar itself is much too stiff and rigid. There is too much starched anticipation and tension in the look. Easy, easy, easy.....ease up.

Soften the collar, add tie space so your luxurious silk cuddles luxuriously between two velvet pillows.

Cheers

PS You know this Andrey, but for the others: a good shirtmaker will normally offer you a choice of soft or structured collar and points using the appropriate interlinings. Ask for the softest humanly possible.

If the maker does not ask and offer you a choice, you must understand and accept that you are not in the presence of a bonafide shirtmaker, so politely get the hell outta there. :D
arch
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 2:48 pm

'Not a single of my 150 piece bespoke shirt collection is British'

Michael,

How an earth do you find the time to wear all of those shirts - You must wear each one around twice a year?
Concordia
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 3:12 pm

The JFK model: change after the lunchtime swim, and again before dinner.
davidhuh
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:15 pm

alden wrote:
Not a single of my 150 piece bespoke shirt collection is British.
Dear Michael,

I'm not at 150 (yet), but just a little below 8) 90% of my bespoke shirts are English. The maker is a deliciously grumpy man who likes to scare some of this customers but has never let me down. His shirts fit, basta for me.
andreyb wrote: There is a fresh face in the usual deck of English bespoke shirtmakers: Wil Whiting.

http://wilwhiting.com/

Yes, you saw it right -- a hand-made buttonhole on an English-made shirt! Repeat: a hand-made buttonhole on an English-made shirt!!
Dear Andrey,

it is helpful to know when there is a new shirtmaker in town. May be it is me, but I would prefer reading about a customer experience. As for hand-made buttonholes, honestly, I could not care less. I do care about a fitting shirt and a reliable and consistent service.

Cheers, David
alden
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 4:19 pm

How an earth do you find the time to wear all of those shirts - You must wear each one around twice a year?
:D Well if I talk to you guys about the importance of good shirts, you at least know I back those statements up.

My collection extends back nearly forty years and includes the works of about twenty five craftsmen who are either no longer with us or retired. They are all hand sewn including all the buttonholes so there are many hours of painstaking work represented in the collection. And as many of you know, every garment tells a story, don't it? So I enjoy them for many reasons. I plan on donating most of the collection to a shirt museum with written detail as to the craftsman's history and technique one day. There is absolutely no way I could recreate my collection today, so it is pretty special.

There are two physical sensations to dress that I truly love: the feeling of a bone dry pair of well fitting shoes and fine stockings, and the feeling of a beautifully crafted and well fit shirt made of fabric that caresses the skin. These are real palpable pleasures that create a sense of well being that lasts all day long. So having a good stock is a good idea.

About half of my shirts are linen and the other half cotton. And I wear mostly the linen ones these days. So I do keep them busy.

Cheers
alden
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:21 pm

I'm not at 150 (yet), but just a little below 8)
David

You are still young :D

And you dress so well you'd make JC Penny look like Rubinacci and there is a great lesson in that for everyone. Yes, we have discussed "the grump" and he has a wonderful reputation and client base, so he has to be doing a lot of things very right.

Cheers
andreyb
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 5:25 pm

alden wrote:The collar size is good. It needs more tie space and the collar itself is much too stiff and rigid. There is too much starched anticipation and tension in the look. Easy, easy, easy.....ease up.

Soften the collar, add tie space so your luxurious silk cuddles luxuriously between two velvet pillows.
This picture is from Wil Whiting's instagramm as well. I thought you'll like this collar more than the one above (which -- I agree -- is more for a mice than a man). Mr Whiting added an interesting comment:
Bespoke collar with roll and 1mm edge stitching. Some think roll (aka spring) is only achieved by Italian shirtmakers. It's also been used in English shirt making for centuries, but sadly due to standardised house styles, archaic rules and lack of diversity it's not often seen. For me whether it's a clean folding (rule abiding) collar or one which breaks them, I do as the customer desires.
Andrey
Man at C&A
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Sat Dec 02, 2017 6:10 pm

uppercase wrote: We have a whole street, Jermyn, dedicated to the art of bespoke shirtmaking.
And yet the only Jermyn Street shops I frequent are the booksellers Waterstones, the cheesemonger Paxton & Whitfield and New & Lingwood. And the later is only when I fancy a good laugh.
hectorm
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Sun Dec 03, 2017 2:39 am

andreyb wrote:
Re: trial shirt. Oh, where is Alex Kabbaz when you need him! :evil:
Mr. Kabbaz is the only shirtmaker I´ve known who -instead of adjusting your first trial shirt- would make you a second trial shirt from scratch. And then, if needed, make you a third one. And you got to keep all those trial garments (and not counted against your initial order).
For effect, Mr. Kabbaz would not-so-subtly suggest you didn't wear those "lesser" shirts in public since they were bad publicity for him.
Of course, at a more than a thousand dollars a pop, and with a required minimum order of 6 shirts establishing your commitment, he could afford to be a perfectionist.
bond_and_beyond
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Sun Dec 03, 2017 3:18 pm

hectorm wrote:
andreyb wrote:
Re: trial shirt. Oh, where is Alex Kabbaz when you need him! :evil:
Mr. Kabbaz is the only shirtmaker I´ve known who -instead of adjusting your first trial shirt- would make you a second trial shirt from scratch. And then, if needed, make you a third one.
T&A did that also, probably cheaper for them to just make a new one than make substantial alterations on an existing one. Though I didn't get to keep them.

***

Come to think of it, Budd also did this AND let me keep the extra shirt (which is perfectly wearable).

I have no direct knowledge of Mr Kabbaz shirts but find some of his «advice» published online to be a bit self serving and ridiculous. And $1000 for what was traditionally an undergarment borders on the absurd (particularly taking into account the current strength of the greenback).

BB
hectorm
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Mon Dec 04, 2017 12:06 am

bond_and_beyond wrote:
Come to think of it, Budd also did this AND let me keep the extra shirt (which is perfectly wearable).
Mr. Butcher cut my original pattern twenty four years ago. I ordered a few dinner and morning dress shirts with detachable collars, including the one I wore at my wedding. I don't remember what the deal was with the trial shirt back then, but I'm positive that nowadays at Budd for new clients, the trial shirt -the one you wash and wear and serves for guiding adjustments- counts as the first of the minimum order of four.
andreyb
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Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:25 am

Let me spill a bit of rain on "who needs a trial shirt with generous London shirtmakers remaking everything?" parade.

My first shirts from two reputable London houses had not just subtle issues, but obvious *problems* (case a: sleeves that are clearly too short; case b: sleeves and torso too tight). Both deficiencies noticed and corrected in subsequent shirts; but it was me who had to "eat" these first mistakes -- no remakes / replacements offered. Maybe because I didn't pushed for replacements? Or maybe, being an international customer, I was easy to be forgotten about?

True, a trial shirt doesn't guarantee a good fit. But it *does* guarantee that sleeves will be the right length on the first "non-trial" shirt -- it's easy to see and correct such things even for a novice cutter. Thus, I still maintain that it's a useful tool, aimed to improve the standard (defining it as a "minimal acceptable level") of fit.

Andrey
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