Made To Measure

[aston]

I watched the guy in the Bentley factory stitch the leather onto my steering wheel using two needles, and the veneer being pattern matched by true craftsmen. And the guy checking the hides for imperfections before they were cut.

I had a few factory fit options on my Golf R when it was being built in some factory somewhere.

Bespoke vs MTM then. Both worthy in their own right, and neither try and compete or claim to be a substitute for the other.

A bit like clothes, non?

[Noble Savage]

I watched the guy in the Bentley factory stitch the leather onto my steering wheel using two needles, and the veneer being pattern matched by true craftsmen. And the guy checking the hides for imperfections before they were cut.

Not really, because the Bently, no mater the handwork, was not reengineered to fit your body shape, weight, nor was the steering wheel calibrated to match your hand strength.

[hectorm]

Bespoke is an artist putting paint on the canvas, with the only boundary his imagination. He may be a mediocre artist and the outcome not good.

Exactly, David. Let's not mystify the bespoke tailor because he's an artist. Although we often use "artist" in a positive way, it really does not mean -in any discipline- good artist by default. Let's give him the respect he deserves, but results are more important in the long run. Haven't you had a mediocre fully bespoke suit? I believe most of us have done the previous homework before commissioning in order to avoid this event. But if it happens, does all the hand work built into it, all those fittings, and the pleasant relationship developed with the tailor, compensate for it?
Bespoke don't mean a thing if it ain't got that swing (BTW, it's really difficult -although not impossible- for MTM to have that swing).

[uppercase]

Huntsman: "you choose the style, fabric and details. We use your measurements to construct a suit from a block cut by our Head Cutter Campbell Carey. It's then finished and pressed by our bespoke team, and delivered direct to you.

Individually tailored. Inspired by bespoke, our suits are cut to create the classic Huntsman silhouette, lined with a four-piece floating canvas to hold their shape, and horn buttons are added to complete the look. For a fit you can feel, and finish to be admired."

I sit here writing to you tonight wearing my sadly maligned H MTM coat, which I have offered up as a sacrifical lamb of sorts.
For the sake of discussion, not war, mind you.

Yes, I am now persuaded by you to reeaxmine this coat and consider what must be its obvious shortcomings because it was made in a cold factory, stitched together by heartless machines...
...because an old craftsman, indeed a master, did not cut and sew it personally, someone who has toiled decades to perfect his craft.
...and the art..., yes, certainly, consider where is the art in a factory made, machine stitched garment?
Where is the humanity in this damned garment?
And finally, I need to take under advisement that MTM should only be considered sophmoric until one is finally able to reach the summit of bespoke, or sadly, someone in dire financial straits. There are rules you know.
This put me in a cold sweat and so, I now also need to contact my banker tomorrow to see what the hell is going on here. Do you know something I dont?
Not to mention the laments and the tsk tsk tsking.

I honestly had no idea of the issues this H MTM posed nor unexpectedly exposed.
But thank you.

The considered views of the posters above gave me great pause. I obviously need to reconsider my previous statements and thoughts.

So with this adivce, and background in mind, I took my H MTM for a spin over the last few days and reexamined its premise, its value and its worth.

I am happy to report to you that I find it to be a great garment, very well made, fitted and you will be happy to hear that it gives me a good deal of pleasure to wear. I derive great satisfaction from this MTM coat.

I am however still searching for its humanity and the faintest touch of the human hand in its making. Sadly, I must report objectively, and I am duty bound to be objective where possible, that the 3 sleeve buttons do not kiss!!

Modreover, the sleeve buttonholes appear machine made and do not even open. I hadn't noticed that before, so I am glad that I was prompted to take notice after all these years that I've been wearing the coat.

Although clothes are best enjoyed, not dissected, I am going to dig out my old Anderson & Sheppard sports coat, this bespoke, and endeavor to do a comparison this week.

There has to be answer here somewhere: should I abandon the very idea of MTM as a betrayal of all that remains good and worthy embodied by the bespoke world, or be open to further explore MTM and its possibilities.

[bond_and_beyond]

There has to be answer here somewhere: should I abandon the very idea of MTM as a betrayal of all that remains good and worthy embodied by the bespoke world, or be open to further explore MTM and its possibilities.

Not at all, just acknowledge that there is a distinct difference between bespoke and MTM, they go through different processes (pattern and fitting) which, for those with physical "quirks" at least, have an influence on the final fit of the garment. But MTM can of course be great. Horses for courses etc.

BB

[Luca]

The best fitting suit I own was a face-to-face MtM. The worst fitting suit I own was an on-line MtM. Neither of my two bespoke suits fit very comfortably, jacket-wise, though the trousers are perfect, in my quite humble opinion. Just a couple of data points, not a belief or a set of conclusions.

[culverwood]

Given how much art either now or historically has been collaborative I do not think it is a good analogy: many old master had "factories" turning out work, almost any bronze will not have been made by the artist, very few monumental artworks are the product of one persons hand.

There is a spectrum with MTM at one end and Old Henry at the other, most bespoke operations are somewhere in the middle in that although they produce an individual product they are the work of many hands.

[HristoStefanov]

Here an example why I do not like MTM.
When you stand still, it looks pretty good:
https://www.permanentstyle.com/wp-conte ... t-copy.jpg
https://www.permanentstyle.com/wp-conte ... easure.jpg

When you raise your hands the lapels immediately get messy as the armholes simply cannot be made as small as with bespoke:
https://www.permanentstyle.com/wp-conte ... n-amel.jpg

I hate this restriction of movement and the messy lapels that one sees on all wedding / prom photos nowadays.
And this for the price of 2000 GBP for the jacket above. In Italy you can easily get bespoke for this price.

[old henry]

If that coat is MTM go get ten of them.
The length is not for me but other than that it is very nice.
The shoulders and collar are beautiful. Balance is good. Armhole high.
Lapels are great. Could use a bit more collar stand for his long neck. But that's here nor there.
If I made it I'd be very very happy.

[Screaminmarlon]

If that coat is MTM go get ten of them.
The length is not for me but other than that it is very nice.
The shoulders and collar are beautiful. Balance is good.
Lapels are great. Could use a bit more collar stand for his long neck.
If I made it I'd be very happy.

Your integrity should inspire us!

[old henry]

And look at that high barcheta breast pocket. And the great patches.
I love it. That takes a lot of skill.
Sleeves are set perfectly.
I take my hat off.

[HristoStefanov]

Frank, for sure the coat fits very well for a MTM. And as it is made in Naples, it has the handwork and details one would expect from a bespoke coat made in Naples(the same workers would make the MTM that would also do work for bespoke tailors).
The problem is that I don't want to stand still in a suit. I want to dance, jump, raise my arms victorious in the direction of the sky. And even such nice MTM does not give the freedom of movement one would get from a bespoke.

[old henry]

Hmmmm. This looks pretty good to me. It is very closely fitted "quick" but he will have good movement because of the high armholes and nicely balanced pattern. No matter how perfectly a coat fits you always know you have on a coat and not just a Tshirt. I have nothing negative to say about this work and I am very happy to see that it is being done somewhere. Flock to Naples if they can do that for you.

[ismailalmurtadza]

Hmmmm. This looks pretty good to me. It is very closely fitted "quick" but he will have good movement because of the high armholes and nicely balanced pattern. No matter how perfectly a coat fits you always know you have on a coat and not just a Tshirt. I have nothing negative to say about this work and I am very happy to see that it is being done somewhere. Flock to Naples if they can do that for you.

Old Henry is as frank as his name Frank Shattuck

Nik

[old henry]

If this is modern technology meeting old world tailoring then I'm all for it.