Flared skirt

[bond_and_beyond]

I have been thinking recently of what really constitutes a "flared skirt" on a jacket. Must there be some distance horizontally between the wearers hips / thighd to the bottom of the skirt? Or is the look best achieved with the skirt still "hugging" the hips?

BB

[Screaminmarlon]

It should be the 'daughter' of a nipped waist, so still hugging the hips I guess

[Luca]

I'm increasingly inclined to think that some flare is a very good thing on a properly fitted overcoat...

[bond_and_beyond]

Is the flare of the skirt in the photo below (lifted from Sartorial Notes) acceptable? Or should the skirt "hug" the hips more?



BB

[old henry]

I would say that the flare in the above coat skirt is there because the coat is touching his shoulders and lifting the hem away. I don't think it is intentional. When Huntsman was Huntsman they made a beautiful flared skirt. Ralph Lauren wore them.

[bond_and_beyond]

I would say that the flare in the above coat skirt is there because the coat is touching his shoulders and lifting the hem away. I don't think it is intentional. When Huntsman was Huntsman they made a beautiful flared skirt. Ralph Lauren wore them.

So this is a case of flawed cutting / make and not a stylistic choice? What does a properly executed flared skirt look like then?

BB

[arch]

I have a 1970s Hunstman. I'll post a pic when I find a minute.

[old henry]

the "flared shirt" starts a the actual waist line and flares from there. They whole side and back must also be backed with selicia ( pocketing) for body. There is a pattern manipulation also but I don't know how to post photos yet.
Also... if the shoulder is cut too close ( too sloped ) it will "touch" the shoulder instead of floating gently as should be. The result is that it lifts the coat side ever so slightly away from the body. This gives a bell effect. I believe this is the case in the above photo. It's a good coat but the shoulders are too quick. They touch the shoulder and lift the coat. Also a flared skirt cannot be as short as this coat is. It needs be a bit longer than a regular cut.

[couch]

Thanks, Frank, these observations are incredibly useful. I remember the flared skirt as a late '70s feature on, as you say, longer coats. My hazy recollection is that trousers were often cut quite trim in the thigh when worn with such coats (some even with flared bottoms), but that may have just been the fashion of the day. What I never guessed were the reinforcement and pattern manipulations needed to make the flared skirt hang well.

Is there any technical relationship between the kind of flared skirt you describe and the skirt on a hacking or other riding coat?

[bond_and_beyond]

For context, here is the full description of the suit:
http://sartorialnotes.com/2017/04/20/fi ... -row-suit/

Made by the "legendary" Matthew Plews. The owner seems very happy with his suit.

BB

[old henry]

Couch, the flared skirt , the ones made by Toninno Christophoro on W57th St and Huntsman were very sharp. Not a bell bottom look at all. The flared skirt manipulation is also one once used for a customer with a prominent seat. It lifts and rounds the cloth over the seat using pattern manipulation rather than just adding more cloth. ( old cutting stuff ). The coat side and back cloth is also "pressed short" across the waist line to accentuate the the pattern manipulation. I worked with Henry Stewart in who's shop cupped hems were made. And I worked in Christophoro shop wher very Italian flared shirts were made. These tailors made very trim well fitted suits with trim very functional trousers usually pleats were discouraged. I wish I could find the photo of Ralph Lauren from around 1990 coming down the stairs in a very sharp extremely well fitted Huntsman suit. It always stayed with me. Perfection. Other Photos I find of him in suits are not Huntsman. I have the manipulations in my shop if someone wants to send me their email I will send to you and you can post.

Ps. The above suit is very nice. A 1/4" miscalculation on the shoulder front and back will cause the shoulder to touch the shoulder bone and lift away. Perhaps more pad was used with out allowing for the extra pad by adding shoulder height to the pattern. ( when shoulder height is added the accompanying volume must be added to the sleeve pattern or the sleeve will pull across the sleeve head.

Pss. Yes couch. Riding coats use the same manipulation. If anyone has The Blue Book of Mens Tailoring form 1905 it's in there.
There are Frank Shattuck suits floating around The LL and they are far far from perfect too.

[bond_and_beyond]

These are great insights Frank, thank you! Just to help my understanding, the bottom of the jacket should be more or less touching the side of the thigh, whereas in this photo there is a slight horizontal distance. By observing this slight horizontal distance, one can infer a "slight flaw" in the fit of the shoulders?

How would the person go about remedying it? I assume it would not help to simply "tighten" the skirt at the bottom (reduce circumference)?

Thanks,
BB

[old henry]

No BB To take in the skirt would be incorrect. The skirt is most likely fine. The coat would need more shoulder height This raises the front shoulder point and back shoulder point )say 3/8" each. This will allow the coat to drop from the shoulder points and relax onto the customers shoulder and swing the sides in to where they want to be. It is a shoulder issue. Not a side issue you can see in the photo the collar on the right side is slightly pulling away. This is also a symptom of a too quick ( snug ) shoulder. The shoulders need more "air". I would bet if there was a side view the front balance would be a bit short too.

[Scot]

For context, here is the full description of the suit:
http://sartorialnotes.com/2017/04/20/fi ... -row-suit/

Made by the "legendary" Matthew Plews. The owner seems very happy with his suit.

BB

I'm no expert but the suit looks great to me, and classic MP.

An interesting video link on the blog also

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0H4wCGJ ... e=youtu.be

[couch]

Thanks, Frank. When I referred to flared bottoms (bell-bottoms), I meant the trousers. I ran across an ad recently from the '70s with a drawing of exactly this look—slim trousers, slightly belled, and a coat with a flared skirt (from the waist) that was not cupped. I tried to post it here but it was too large, so I had to resort to words. The line of that skirt definitely ended at a distance from the trouser thigh. I (perhaps erroneously) associate this look with the "continental" cut of that era. Shorter coat, almost no cupping.

The gent in the photo Scot posted has lifted his forearms. Is it possible that he has also lifted his shoulders slightly, so that the effect you are describing might result from his specific posture at the moment of the photo, and if his arms and shoulders were relaxed at his sides, the skirt would fall into place?

(Of course the unachievable ideal is for the coat to hang perfectly no matter how the wearer moves . . . )

To the OP and Luca's points, I think there are different looks preferred by different wearers in different contexts. Michael has described one such ideal (illustrated by some AA illustrations and photos of Cary Grant in the early '50s) in which the bottom of the coat and the fullness of the trousers create nearly a single vertical line. A cupped skirt facilitates that, even if the trousers are less full.

A cupped skirt with a nipped waist also lends more of an hourglass silhouette. Especially for wearers lacking wide shoulders or with broad hips, there are some who find this silhouette too feminine in feel (some of the same people prefer the undarted Brooks Brothers sack silhouette). I am not one of those. For city and rus in urbe coats, I prefer the cupped skirt (especially with a vented coat) as keeping the hip line slim and showing the shaping skill of the tailor.

However, the longer hacking/riding-derived flared skirt can also look well, and its longer length moves the width of the skirt's hem well below the hips, thus accentuating them less.

The suitability of each of these effects really depend on the wearer's proportions, too—length of leg vs. torso length, shoulder width vs. waist, thickness of limbs, etc.

I woud love to see the photo of RL that Frank refers to, if it ever surfaces.