Tweed jacket and trousers

[WhiteBeard]

Dear all,

I recently stumbled across a length of cloth in an antiques shop, a heavy and dense tweed of about 2+ meters.


I've been pondering what this cloth could be transformed into; what would be most true to it's character and nature.

I'm thinking maybe a sporty belted action-back jacket with patch pockets.
Perhaps paired with trousers made from this herringbone Molloy Tweed?



Thoughts?

[old henry]

That's a "Barn Find"
Beautiful.

[WhiteBeard]

That's a "Barn Find"
Beautiful.

Thank you Old Henry.
I was quite surprised to find this in a corner of a Swedish antiques shop, underneath some towels and other things.
Do you have any ideas of what I should do with it? It should be enough for a jacket at least.

[davidhuh]

Dear White Beard,

a beautiful cloth indeed!

Now my recommendation would be turning it to something you can wear often. Action back is a possibility - but the cloth has something genuinely elegant, so I would be careful with this. See here what I did with the LL Donegal barleycorn: http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... 255#p79180
Patch pockets, pignata style add some interest.

Regarding the trousers: the herringbone Molloy is not a good idea, I'm afraid to say. This is coating material and not suitable for trousers.
Grey & cream flannel, moleskin, corduroy - the last two in bottle green, brown, different shades of blue?

Cheers, David

[hectorm]

Perhaps paired with trousers made from this herringbone Molloy Tweed?

Thoughts?

I´m afraid that for what I can see in the picture, the Molloy tweed seems to be less than ideal for trousering or matching your beautiful find.
The Molloy tweed pattern scale seems a bit too big and the cloth looks woven also a bit on the loose side. Besides, that flecked and rich coarse barley corn pattern IMO would require some substantial but plain color twill trousers or maybe a moleskin.

[Concordia]

Perhaps paired with trousers made from this herringbone Molloy Tweed?

Thoughts?

I´m afraid that for what I can see in the picture, the Molloy tweed seems to be less than ideal for trousering or matching your beautiful find.
The Molloy tweed pattern scale seems a bit too big and the cloth looks woven also a bit on the loose side.

Ah, but as lining for your 5-ply mohair trousers...

[old henry]

It seems to me that David might be right. My first though was to do what you were thinking with the sport back. But then again.... The cloth is so sublet and beautiful and elegant...... might it be best served by keeping things simple ? Soft chest, soft shoulders , patch pockets ? It really is a very special find. You done good.
I also agree with what he says about the Malloy tweed for trousers. I would do a medium grey west of England flannel trouser.

[WhiteBeard]

It seems to me that David might be right. My first though was to do what you were thinking with the sport back. But then again.... The cloth is so sublet and beautiful and elegant...... might it be best served by keeping things simple ? Soft chest, soft shoulders , patch pockets ? It really is a very special find. You done good.
I also agree with what he says about the Malloy tweed for trousers. I would do a medium grey west of England flannel trouser.

Thank you all for your helpful replies.

I will follow your advice and go for a pair of west England grey flannel trousers and an elegant and not overly sporty jacket design.
Let the cloth speak for itself. I am sure there is history in these threads, waiting to be told...

[WhiteBeard]

Found another nice piece of cloth. Harris Tweed, probably 1940s I think.
5 meters of 29,5'' width, it should be enough for a sports coat?

[Concordia]

How does that feel different from current Harris? People tend to suggest that the old stuff was much more durable and/or heavy.

My grandfather brought a little back from when he was travelling with the Canadian military in the 50s and my father made a jacket from it. (HS or college days, I suppose.) Eventually, he tossed it because he was bored with it and it was showing no signs of wearing out.

When the conductor Georg Solti was in London before the war, he treated himself to a Harris tweed suit. During the war, when he was a refugee forbidden to work in Switzerland, he wore it every day. Somehow, both of them survived.

[hectorm]

5 meters of 29,5'' width, it should be enough for a sports coat?

The 29,5 inch width must reflect one of the small looms which were the norm 50 or more years ago. 5 meters is the equivalent of 2.5 meters at the "regular" wider looms which, although still man-powered to keep the Harris brand, are pervasive now. Without patterns to match, it would be enough for a jacket. Enjoy it! That was a true find.

People tend to suggest that the old stuff was much more durable and/or heavy.
...When the conductor Georg Solti was in London before the war, he treated himself to a Harris tweed suit..., he wore it every day. Somehow, both of them survived.

Maybe the old, old stuff was appropriate for a suit, but all the Harris that I´ve seen during the last 25 years is not. Besides being rough to the touch, which would demand some lining, the yarns are hand-woven rather loosely and not truly suitable for durable shapely trousers.

[HristoStefanov]

I would like to share one advise which I got from one of the best German tailors - Volkmar Arnulf.
Fabrics loose their properties with time and old fabrics (ex. above 20 years in age) usually become inferior in quality.
No joke - Volkmar Arnulf would check an old fabric with a microscope (German approach to tailoring ) in order to tell if it is still good.
This more or less destroys the vintage fabrics hype which reigns over the Internet.

And as far as bespoke tailoring is a pretty expensive pleasure, I would personally not accept the risk of using a cheap or old fabric. This is one of the reasons why I am here at the LL Cloth Club. When I pay 2 to 4k for the labor, I would pay the extra penny for better materials as well.

[hectorm]

Fabrics loose their properties with time and old fabrics (ex. above 20 years in age) usually become inferior in quality. This more or less destroys the vintage fabrics hype which reigns over the Internet.

My own experience with vintage cloths is limited, but I don´t find anything noticeable with them one way or the other. Also a quick research on the subject yielded inconclusive results.
I would like to hear from a more knowledgeable member here at the LL. The question would be what properties (thermal, comfort, draping, durability) and how much the fabrics change in 20, 30 + years?

[Screaminmarlon]

I have a few lenghts stored that should be 'inferior' because of their age: I bought them because they don't make them like that anymore, not because they're old.
I'll have them made up someday eventually, and hope for the best

[couch]

I think the answer is that it depends. If the cloth was woven of high-quality yarns, retaining some of the natural lanolin after scouring and finishing, was not woven under extremely high tension, and has not been subject to harsh chemicals in finishing or cleaning solvents, then I'd imagine it started out with the capability of quite a long life. After all, high-quality handwoven wool rugs subject to much heavier use than stored menswear cloths often retain strength, resilience, and rich color and sheen for a century or more. If the yarn or manufacture was inferior (harsh chemicals in dyeing, finishing, etc.) or if storage conditions (periodic high heat, desiccation or humidity cycling, extensive light exposure, etc.) were stressful, then it might suffer from embrittlement, loss of flexibility, dulling of surface, fading, etc. Wool is a proteinaceous fiber that dislikes the conditions that most organic fibers dislike, but is more vulnerable to chemical deterioration than a virtually pure long-fiber cellulose like linen. I would think that an old Harris tweed, if stored out of light in cool conditions, and free of insect depredations, would probably be a decent bet. I defer to our more experienced members in the wool trade, and to Michael on the pinch and roll test, but if the cloth behaves well in the hand (as you would test the quality of a new cloth), then I'd think you'd be fine. Michael found some NOS vintage woolen flannel, probably from the '60s or so, that I bought for trousers a few years back, and it has worn quite well. A bit spongy, but I suspect that's pretty much how it started life. Takes the iron well and drapes like a dream.

And for hectorm, I've written here before about the blazer that John Kent cut for me in 1984. It was a Holland and Sherry worsted flannel, one of the first super cloths at (gasp) super 100s. Looks as good and behaves as well now as when I wore it regularly in the '80s and '90s. But now the shoulders are too narrow and the chest too neat to fit me, so it awaits a suitable new home, or perhaps donation to Jeffery Diduch for dissection.

And don't forget, the Row tradition of cutting two real with two sham buttons on sleeves originated so that fathers could pass on their indestructible jackets to their sons, even if shortening the sleeves might be required. And of course Lapo Elkann has been known to wear some of his grandfather Gianni Agnelli's suits. So it seems that cloth of that era was expected to last, and has, for a generation or two at least.

I would not wager on the longevity of superfine-fiber wools woven on extremely high-tension, high-speed looms for the RTW market now. I might be proven wrong, but I wouldn't expect them to hold up nearly so well as the traditionally made goods.