The role of bespoke in a relaxed environment
Luca, I fear you are correct.
Indeed. I'm not at all sure where the idea comes from that wearing a dinner jacket makes one appear to look as though one were in a period drama. I have to say that is utter nonsense.HristoStefanov wrote:It is not very difficult to wear a dinner jacket in the evening and not looking like in a period drama.arch wrote: All fine if you want to look like you are in a period drama.
If you are alone - you may indeed sometimes look awkward.
I find myself alone in wearing a dinner jacket quite often. I never feel awkward. And I certainly never look awkward. Others' experiences may vary, I guess.
I know that if I were to go to my local restaurants in black tie, there would certainly be some comments. It would be assumed that I had come from an event or was going on to an event.Indeed. I'm not at all sure where the idea comes from that wearing a dinner jacket makes one appear to look as though one were in a period drama. I have to say that is utter nonsense.
When I say 'period drama', let e explain further that in the UK there are plenty of 'vintage' festivals where people dress up in e.g. 40's gear, which can include black tie. Indeed in my local area there are any number of shops selling vintage clothing and assessories, some of which do have some gems from time to time.
In any case I think we have strayed away from the initial idea of the thread.
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YoungLawyer
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In my work in London, the norm is either a three piece suit or double breasted suit, every day. Very few exceptions. And stiff collars almost every day. So I don't have to worry about standing out. On the rare days I don't have to meet clients, and can stay in chambers, I'd probably wear tweed and odd trousers, but then always with a tie - mainly because I can't have lunch in hall without a tie, or go to a club afterwards should I have time.
At the weekends, I'd normally just wear a tailored tweed coat/blazer and odd trousers (usually Cordings), and almost always with a tie anyway. Why not? I don't feel uncomfortable doing so. That's what I'd wear pretty much everywhere outside work and at weekends.
If I'm in a group of more than three of four in the evening, we all might wear evening dress out - indeed I often do - but that suggests central London. I wouldn't go as far as dressing to eat out alone... and I don't think we would outside Mayfair/St.James. I don't have any problem with creating a sense of occasion, and in central London it doesn't seem out of place. However, evening dress out, except in parts of London, just seems more than slightly ostentatious.
Away from London, being half in academica in another city, I've no problem with standing out. Actually, where I teach, I think it's mainly an older generation that associate T-shirts with 'creativity', and most of the younger cohort on the staff prefer to look like they are at work. That means most wear worsted suits, and only a few tweed, but the mood is certainly no longer to appear as casual as the students. That's only in law; not every department is the same.
So, perhaps unusually, I don't have to negotiate very much of the 'smart casual' nonsense at work, and I'm grateful in that it makes life very much easier not having to try to do so.
At the weekends, I'd normally just wear a tailored tweed coat/blazer and odd trousers (usually Cordings), and almost always with a tie anyway. Why not? I don't feel uncomfortable doing so. That's what I'd wear pretty much everywhere outside work and at weekends.
If I'm in a group of more than three of four in the evening, we all might wear evening dress out - indeed I often do - but that suggests central London. I wouldn't go as far as dressing to eat out alone... and I don't think we would outside Mayfair/St.James. I don't have any problem with creating a sense of occasion, and in central London it doesn't seem out of place. However, evening dress out, except in parts of London, just seems more than slightly ostentatious.
Away from London, being half in academica in another city, I've no problem with standing out. Actually, where I teach, I think it's mainly an older generation that associate T-shirts with 'creativity', and most of the younger cohort on the staff prefer to look like they are at work. That means most wear worsted suits, and only a few tweed, but the mood is certainly no longer to appear as casual as the students. That's only in law; not every department is the same.
So, perhaps unusually, I don't have to negotiate very much of the 'smart casual' nonsense at work, and I'm grateful in that it makes life very much easier not having to try to do so.
Younglawyer: you legal chaps are the last bastion of strict suit everyday, as far as I can tell.
In finance that's long gone. That said, in banking one CAN still wear a suit everyday without attracting notice or questions. It's just not required.
In finance that's long gone. That said, in banking one CAN still wear a suit everyday without attracting notice or questions. It's just not required.
Dear "arch", I say this from a sympathetic standpoint, as I hope was evident in my previous replies.arch wrote: When I say 'period drama', let e explain further that in the UK there are plenty of 'vintage' festivals where people dress up in e.g. 40's gear, which can include black tie.
I completely understand what you are saying and your reasons.
Most people are not exhibitionists and dislike being stared at.
I, personally, think it is a rather sad that: a) increasingly, outside of a few rarefied purlieus, clothes that are routinely worn by hundreds/thousands of people on a regular basis can be subjectively perceived as 'costume' and that b) in light of what is the modern norm, so many potentially elegant dressers, fear 'costume' so strongly.
The net result is inevitably a rapid trend towards the lowest common denominator.
Aesthetes of the world: dress up! You have nothing to lose but the acceptance of slobs.
Hear, hear, Luca.
On this topic, I'm put in mind of our quiet member Bill (voxsartoria) and his Tumblr—and even more, I think, his Instagram—sites, which have been mentioned on the LL recently. Many of us have followed Vox over the years on the menswear forums and enjoy his new sites, and of course he receives his share of flames and carping.
But many of his readers and followers are new, and don't arrive via the forums. It only takes about 30 seconds to realize that he comes from an extremely well-heeled and well-established Boston-area family. His tagline citing vanities greater than miseries shows that he has an admirable self-awareness and sense of humor, given that his online activity is vulnerable to accusations of narcissism and conspicuous consumption. His own notes emphasize the light-heartedness of the endeavor.
But consider that there is a much more sophisticated set of effects at work. On his Tumblr, he shows, as he says, striking photographs of people from the era when suits were taken for granted, and he shows those people not just in suits but in all sorts of attire in all sorts of life situations. This provides variety and celebrity appeal even for the casual viewer, while subliminally keeping alive that range of styles—and occasions—in the collective memory.
But, you might say, it's all historical. Well, in his Instagram feed (and some of the selfies on the Tumblr) Vox shows a similar range of attire, from his own life, in all sorts of situations: white tie, black tie (quite a number), conservative business dress for all seasons, tweed and linen odd jackets and trousers, biking/rowing gear, jeans and casual jackets. Vox has developed into an elegant man, and this is how he dresses to live his life. Not at fashion shows such as Piiti, not to promote menswear producers, but to go to work, to galas, to dinner, to work out, to run errands in the neighborhood.
So though some of us might make different choices about specific items, we should acknowledge that here is a contemporary man who is providing an elegant aspirational alternative to the anti-style of the Jobs/Zuckerberg sort, or the non-style of other wealthy public figures.
Not everyone will have all the occasions that Vox has, but he is modeling how one can make the best of the opportunities one has. We have often complained of the lack of contemporary role models, or "style icons." Vox is doing something about it. He is smart enough to realize that today people, especially young people, are influenced primarily by images, brief text, and "personal" online connections. It took me a while to recognize this function of the sites, and it would not surprise me if Vox disavowed it (sprezzatura and all that), but nevertheless it's a valuable service (as were Michael's videos). If it inspires some young men to want to live a similarly elegant life in their own way, that's a good thing.
Well done, that man.
On this topic, I'm put in mind of our quiet member Bill (voxsartoria) and his Tumblr—and even more, I think, his Instagram—sites, which have been mentioned on the LL recently. Many of us have followed Vox over the years on the menswear forums and enjoy his new sites, and of course he receives his share of flames and carping.
But many of his readers and followers are new, and don't arrive via the forums. It only takes about 30 seconds to realize that he comes from an extremely well-heeled and well-established Boston-area family. His tagline citing vanities greater than miseries shows that he has an admirable self-awareness and sense of humor, given that his online activity is vulnerable to accusations of narcissism and conspicuous consumption. His own notes emphasize the light-heartedness of the endeavor.
But consider that there is a much more sophisticated set of effects at work. On his Tumblr, he shows, as he says, striking photographs of people from the era when suits were taken for granted, and he shows those people not just in suits but in all sorts of attire in all sorts of life situations. This provides variety and celebrity appeal even for the casual viewer, while subliminally keeping alive that range of styles—and occasions—in the collective memory.
But, you might say, it's all historical. Well, in his Instagram feed (and some of the selfies on the Tumblr) Vox shows a similar range of attire, from his own life, in all sorts of situations: white tie, black tie (quite a number), conservative business dress for all seasons, tweed and linen odd jackets and trousers, biking/rowing gear, jeans and casual jackets. Vox has developed into an elegant man, and this is how he dresses to live his life. Not at fashion shows such as Piiti, not to promote menswear producers, but to go to work, to galas, to dinner, to work out, to run errands in the neighborhood.
So though some of us might make different choices about specific items, we should acknowledge that here is a contemporary man who is providing an elegant aspirational alternative to the anti-style of the Jobs/Zuckerberg sort, or the non-style of other wealthy public figures.
Not everyone will have all the occasions that Vox has, but he is modeling how one can make the best of the opportunities one has. We have often complained of the lack of contemporary role models, or "style icons." Vox is doing something about it. He is smart enough to realize that today people, especially young people, are influenced primarily by images, brief text, and "personal" online connections. It took me a while to recognize this function of the sites, and it would not surprise me if Vox disavowed it (sprezzatura and all that), but nevertheless it's a valuable service (as were Michael's videos). If it inspires some young men to want to live a similarly elegant life in their own way, that's a good thing.
Well done, that man.
Couch,
Yes, Vox is a stalwart bespokanista.
I like it.
I like his tumblr pages and appreciate his dedication to keeping us informed, on our toes, and enlightened. I like that he uses both SR and Italian tailors.
Open minded. Balanced.
Great service.
I'm not familiar with his Instagram posts.…are they under the same name: voxsartoria. ??
Yes, Vox is a stalwart bespokanista.
I like it.
I like his tumblr pages and appreciate his dedication to keeping us informed, on our toes, and enlightened. I like that he uses both SR and Italian tailors.
Open minded. Balanced.
Great service.
I'm not familiar with his Instagram posts.…are they under the same name: voxsartoria. ??
UC,
HIs account is here. Some overlap with the Tumblr, but the Instagram (as you'd expect) has more on-location-in-real-life candid shots than the Tumblr, where most of the photos of his own clothing are more Vox-as-mannequin. The wife and son (sans faces, of course) also make occasional appearances.
HIs account is here. Some overlap with the Tumblr, but the Instagram (as you'd expect) has more on-location-in-real-life candid shots than the Tumblr, where most of the photos of his own clothing are more Vox-as-mannequin. The wife and son (sans faces, of course) also make occasional appearances.
Yes, very interesting, but please rememember that this is not the norm for other professions. In my own profession (architect) a shirt and jean type trousers and a bicycle seems to be the uniform of choice.uppercase wrote:Young L. That's a very nice write up and provides a lot of insight into the dressing matters of a professional in London.
Nicely detailed and useful insight.
Thanks!
I'm seeing more of this among younger people and not just at work. Cocktail culture, reaction against "dad jeans" and a general sense that the norms that the casual rebellion rebelled against are now so distant as to not be worth resisting have all made real headway. Not that people are all slavishly imitating the past, but more are making an effort. I notice it particularly in shoes, where broguing and "interestingly" colored intersoles are frequently displacing black Kenneth Coles, and in the increasing frequency of ties—bows, skinny long ties, and classics. Often worn sans jacket and sometimes with a cardigan, but it shows a shift.YoungLawyer wrote:Actually, where I teach, I think it's mainly an older generation that associate T-shirts with 'creativity', and most of the younger cohort on the staff prefer to look like they are at work.
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gegarrenton
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Vox is certainly a witty guy, and does justice to bespoke work, but I would say his one drawback is he is very thin skinned and I'm not sure I agree with your assessment of his self awareness.couch wrote:Hear, hear, Luca.
On this topic, I'm put in mind of our quiet member Bill (voxsartoria) and his Tumblr—and even more, I think, his Instagram—sites, which have been mentioned on the LL recently. Many of us have followed Vox over the years on the menswear forums and enjoy his new sites, and of course he receives his share of flames and carping.
But many of his readers and followers are new, and don't arrive via the forums. It only takes about 30 seconds to realize that he comes from an extremely well-heeled and well-established Boston-area family. His tagline citing vanities greater than miseries shows that he has an admirable self-awareness and sense of humor, given that his online activity is vulnerable to accusations of narcissism and conspicuous consumption. His own notes emphasize the light-heartedness of the endeavor.
But consider that there is a much more sophisticated set of effects at work. On his Tumblr, he shows, as he says, striking photographs of people from the era when suits were taken for granted, and he shows those people not just in suits but in all sorts of attire in all sorts of life situations. This provides variety and celebrity appeal even for the casual viewer, while subliminally keeping alive that range of styles—and occasions—in the collective memory.
But, you might say, it's all historical. Well, in his Instagram feed (and some of the selfies on the Tumblr) Vox shows a similar range of attire, from his own life, in all sorts of situations: white tie, black tie (quite a number), conservative business dress for all seasons, tweed and linen odd jackets and trousers, biking/rowing gear, jeans and casual jackets. Vox has developed into an elegant man, and this is how he dresses to live his life. Not at fashion shows such as Piiti, not to promote menswear producers, but to go to work, to galas, to dinner, to work out, to run errands in the neighborhood.
So though some of us might make different choices about specific items, we should acknowledge that here is a contemporary man who is providing an elegant aspirational alternative to the anti-style of the Jobs/Zuckerberg sort, or the non-style of other wealthy public figures.
Not everyone will have all the occasions that Vox has, but he is modeling how one can make the best of the opportunities one has. We have often complained of the lack of contemporary role models, or "style icons." Vox is doing something about it. He is smart enough to realize that today people, especially young people, are influenced primarily by images, brief text, and "personal" online connections. It took me a while to recognize this function of the sites, and it would not surprise me if Vox disavowed it (sprezzatura and all that), but nevertheless it's a valuable service (as were Michael's videos). If it inspires some young men to want to live a similarly elegant life in their own way, that's a good thing.
Well done, that man.
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YoungLawyer
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Do any others of you use instagram to share your tailors' creations? As it's perhaps easier to share pictures on instagram than here, I'm sure we'd be interested to see these.
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