Bespoke shirtmaker

[hsw9001]

One of the hidden, goulish benefits of going to an established shop rather than a sole proprietor. At Charvet, the departure of a sous-chef will not stop the meals from appearing nightly.

It's tough to justify the 2-3x cost of Charvet. Also they are less flexible. Charvet couldn't do a fitting the same week but Mary could. I tried Charvet's Demi-measure but it's not the same. Anyone else notice that Mary cuts the sleeve so that the cuff stays in the same place even when you bend the elbow. I don't think I have other shirts that stay in the same place so well during movement.

[Sartorius_2]

Mary's work is excellent. She nailed my collar in a way that my last London maker never managed to do even after numerous attempts.

Button placement also - something I've never even been offered in London.

And her finishing is so much better than I've had elsewhere (although I've found that her buttons tend to come loose rather more frequently than I'd like).

So I'm still looking for comparable alternatives if others have recommendations?

[gegarrenton]

Is Foster still in business? I know he was getting up there.

[Sartorius_2]

This is a quote from Alden from a thread back in 2012:
"The results are in. Mary's work is the direct result of her apprenticeship with Pierre. His hand is there, and it is the best I have ever seen bar none.

When over ten years ago Pierre Duboin told me he was retiring, I was sartorially devastated. Here I had found a shirtmaker who made my Romans and Neapolitans look silly, and he retires on me!

It is to his great credit, that unlike most masters, Pierre has passed on the experience of three generations and over forty years to an equally masterful student. If only others matched him for class as well as skill and would do the same we would not risk losing everything. In any case, if we cannot have Pierre back in first person, it is a thrill to see him at work with new, talented hands.

It should come as no surprise, since I have been writing it for a decade now, that I consider Pierre Duboin to be the worlds best shirtmaker and no one comes close (well maybe Mary will, I hope.)

In the second tier of bespoke shirtmakers are Charvet and Lanvin. In the third tier you will find a lady from Rome, a chap from Genova and one from Naples. Then there are a few dozen excellent makers in Italy and Spain.

I would not rate the Brits highly for the simple reason that I personally consider them to be high end MTM and not artisanal bespoke. So they would not even make "my" list."

Can anyone recommend the makers alluded to in Rome, Genoa and Naples?

[hsw9001]

I suspect he means Finollo in Genoa and perhaps Anna Matuozzo in Naples. Don't know about Rome.

[dfoverdx2]

Anna Matuozzo makes nice shirts but they are quite expensive and she's now putting even less handwork in the shirts. Shirts are quite expensive on international standards and they are absurdly expensive for Naples standard where labor is cheap. Personnaly i don't like her approach to pricing. At this price tag i would expect a fully hand finished shirt which is far from the case.

I found another shirt maker in Naples, he's doing quite good job and putting a lot of handwork in it. Shirt is almost entirely hand finished, it's very elegant. From fitting point of view i only had one fitting but it was quite good so we will see how the final shirt will end up. From pricing point of view actually close to AM but he's putting around 25 hours to make a shirt.

Another good shirt maker is Merolla. They make nice shirts, nothing spectacular or great but pricing is good and you get a good shirt for what you pay. Worth to give a try in any case.

I would avoid Luca Avitabile (ex Satriano cinque), poor fitting, poor execution.

There are many value traps in Naples, be aware !

[Concordia]

Wasn't Avatabile once part of the Merolla shop? Or did I misunderstand the various blog posts on the endless reorgs?

[bond_and_beyond]

I would avoid Luca Avitabile (ex Satriano cinque), poor fitting, poor execution.

There are many value traps in Naples, be aware !

I've used Avitabile for a few shirts, and thought they turned out OK. Very much like the button down collars he makes.

Did you try him while he was with Satriano of after he went solo? What issues did the shirts have?

BB

[hectorm]

Anna Matuozzo makes nice shirts but they are quite expensive and she's now putting even less handwork in the shirts...... I found another shirt maker in Naples, ..from pricing point of view actually close to AM but he's putting around 25 hours to make a shirt.

If you add the cost of 25 hours of highly skilled labor -at developed world wages- by a true artisan, plus the cost of the fabric, plus some overhead (there are many other costs even for a small operation), the price of a true bespoke shirt couldn´t be less than 800-900 Euros. And this is less, BTW, than what Alex Kabbaz charges in NY, although he claims many fewer hours of labor in a shirt.
If you manage to pay even less than that amount for a fully bespoke shirt, you are getting an exceptional value indeed. Almost too good to be true.

[Sartorius_2]

Does anyone have any recent first hand experience with Courtot or Lucca in Paris?

[dfoverdx2]

I would avoid Luca Avitabile (ex Satriano cinque), poor fitting, poor execution.

There are many value traps in Naples, be aware !

I've used Avitabile for a few shirts, and thought they turned out OK. Very much like the button down collars he makes.

Did you try him while he was with Satriano of after he went solo? What issues did the shirts have?

BB

BB,
The cut of the shirt was not great. When i look my well-cut shirts frankly i trace easily shape of my body which is not case for Avitabile. I asked a couple of things and it was not done; length of sleeves, the armpit area etc. They are making shirts to hit armpit and as a person who's sweating i don't like it. I asked him to make a room but he was not able to do it. Same story for sleeves, they were too long. When i brought him back shirts to make sleeves 2cm shorter he even didn't remove sleeve placket to shorten the length he just shorten it as it was.
I didn't see any necessity to complain because you know this is Napolitan way of working. So my take is simply forget it. Go try another shirt maker you will see. If you have tried only 1-2 shirt maker it's hard to compare but if you have tried 5-6 then you will see the difference in quality.

[dfoverdx2]

Anna Matuozzo makes nice shirts but they are quite expensive and she's now putting even less handwork in the shirts...... I found another shirt maker in Naples, ..from pricing point of view actually close to AM but he's putting around 25 hours to make a shirt.

If you add the cost of 25 hours of highly skilled labor -at developed world wages- by a true artisan, plus the cost of the fabric, plus some overhead (there are many other costs even for a small operation), the price of a true bespoke shirt couldn´t be less than 800-900 Euros. And this is less, BTW, than what Alex Kabbaz charges in NY, although he claims many fewer hours of labor in a shirt.
If you manage to pay even less than that amount for a fully bespoke shirt, you are getting an exceptional value indeed. Almost too good to be true.

hectorm,
I guess that you've never been in Naples but at least you are aware that today in some part of Europe wages are lower than in China (at least in the coasts). Note also that it's not maker who's doing sewing which is the labor intensive part. You have tons of people available (in particular women for shirts) in Naples for this kind of task. It's a quite different world than NY
I will post some shots when i receive the shirt so you will judge it.

[hectorm]

Note also that it's not maker who's doing sewing which is the labor intensive part. You have tons of people available (in particular women for shirts) in Naples for this kind of task.

In this case, it´s not a true bespoke shirt in the sense of the OP and you are right, the price of the shirt should be significantly lower.
And, BTW, yes, actually I´ve done my mandatory sartorial pilgrimage to Napoli (in the late 90s). I have some fun Parthenopean memories and also some scars...

[dfoverdx2]

Note also that it's not maker who's doing sewing which is the labor intensive part. You have tons of people available (in particular women for shirts) in Naples for this kind of task.

In this case, it´s not a true bespoke shirt in the sense of the OP and you are right, the price of the shirt should be significantly lower.
And, BTW, yes, actually I´ve done my mandatory sartorial pilgrimage to Napoli (in the late 90s). I have some fun Parthenopean memories and also some scars...

hector,
I understand argument and you are right to some extent. However for me as long as work is well done i don't see the problem. The oursourced work is really final handwork stitching, button-holes, side seams, bottom-hem seams, sleeves long seams etc. As i said this shirt is entirely hand finished. You may argue about utility of hemming bottom by hand but it's another story.

[gegarrenton]

I still find the notion that people have taken the definition of bespoke and narrowed it to a hilariously specific set of motions fairly odd. If you are having a shirt, suit, or any other particular item made from scratch to your shape and specifications, it's bespoke.

Personally, I'd never want a 100% hand sewn shirt, they will never be as good as a shirt made by a skilled seamstress with a machine.