Bespoke shirtmaker

[Sartorius_2]

I live in London but alas there are no bespoke shirtmakers working here anymore.

I would not subscribe to this quote.There are several bespoke shirtmakers in town. ....
....What counts for me is the result.

My immediate reaction was similar to David´s....until I realized that the OP was adhering to a more extreme notion of bespoke in which only one artisan is involved from the beginning to the end (leaving aside for the moment the muslin fitting and the hand-made buttonholes).
Going for that standard, and translating it into suits, none of the great firms of Savile Row would qualify as bespoke tailoring.

I have no wish to denigrate any particular firm or maker. All I can offer is my own experience, which is that the supposed 'bespoke' London makers I've used in reality provide a quite basic and inflexible made to measure service and have struggled in my case to get right even fundamental things like the collar.

Interestingly, with Mary, the measurements were taken by my wife (Mary emailed me a guide to measuring) and Mary made the muslin fitting based on those measurements and a couple of photos I sent her - so we had not actually met until after she'd produced the muslin. The fit of her shirts are far better than I've had from London makers, so my conclusion is that either my wife should start up her own shirt making business, or the muslin fitting stage is a far more important step.

[bond_and_beyond]

I've used both a London shirtmaker (T&A) that does not use a muslin fitting, and a Neopolitan shirtmaker that does. I think my T&A shirts have a slightly better fit, but it took five trial shirts to get there (admittedly at no extra cost to me). One difference I noticed was that the Neopolitan shirtmaker did not use separate "shoulder panels", which makes it harder to adjust to my uneven shoulders. T&A got a better result there by individually moving those panels to adjust to the shoulders. MTM don't offer that as far as I know.

BB

[Concordia]

The "muslin fitting" can be a bit of a distraction when measuring a shirtmaker's method. Budd doesn't do one, but when they really screwed up the first trial, they tossed it. An expensive muslin?

Frittolini did a muslin fitting after a photo/video measurement. The subsequent shirt #1 had some problems, which were brilliantly fixed on #2. It feels very different from the Budd shirt, and maybe better, but some of that is preference of the cutter, not just skill or care. Mr. Butcher looked at a finished copy of one of his at Budd and said that he didn't think he could do any better. Would he want to make a Frittolini shirt? Who knows?

Charvet did a muslin fitting-- with what seemed like a whole committee in the fitting room. The resulting first shirt from the order had many of the same problems that Frittolini's did. Perhaps that is a measure of Parisian taste or tolerance for certain compromises. I go back later this month for a revision, and I'm sure the rest of the order will be great. And somewhat different from other Paris or London products.

[davidhuh]

The "muslin fitting" can be a bit of a distraction when measuring a shirtmaker's method. Budd doesn't do one, but when they really screwed up the first trial, they tossed it. An expensive muslin?

Frittolini did a muslin fitting after a photo/video measurement. The subsequent shirt #1 had some problems, which were brilliantly fixed on #2. It feels very different from the Budd shirt, and maybe better, but some of that is preference of the cutter, not just skill or care. Mr. Butcher looked at a finished copy of one of his at Budd and said that he didn't think he could do any better. Would he want to make a Frittolini shirt? Who knows?

Charvet did a muslin fitting-- with what seemed like a whole committee in the fitting room. The resulting first shirt from the order had many of the same problems that Frittolini's did. Perhaps that is a measure of Parisian taste or tolerance for certain compromises. I go back later this month for a revision, and I'm sure the rest of the order will be great. And somewhat different from other Paris or London products.

Dear Concordia,

enlightening, thank you!

Cheers, David

[uppercase]

I am not convinced that muslin fittings, etc. are necessary.

I have good results without. I don't want a lot of fuss.

A good tailor, shirtmaker, craftsman, has an eye to fit you properly.

I still think that it all depends on the individual and his/her talent.

I don't follow 'houses' but rather individuals. I want to know who is the individual going to cut my coat/shirt and fit it.

The 'house' is good for consistency, supervision, administration.
But the talent lies with the cutter.

I applaud individuals who break out on their own, given their talent. The downside is that they often fall short on the administration, delivery, customer experience side, etc.

I still think that even the best need 3 chances -3 coats to get it right. That's a big investment. But the tell tale is that the second is better than the first. If not....

I've had tailors who on the second coat have introduced new issues, otherwise known as problems. And the third coat, again new issues. Goodbye.

Each individual coat/shirt needs to be better than the last. Otherwise, you have a drunken or incompetent craftsman.

A custom made shirt is a small investment. No need to overdo it.

[gegarrenton]

I am not convinced that muslin fittings, etc. are necessary.

I have good results without. I don't want a lot of fuss.

A good tailor, shirtmaker, craftsman, has an eye to fit you properly.

I still think that it all depends on the individual and his/her talent.

I don't follow 'houses' but rather individuals. I want to know who is the individual going to cut my coat/shirt and fit it.

The 'house' is good for consistency, supervision, administration.
But the talent lies with the cutter.

I applaud individuals who break out on their own, given their talent. The downside is that they often fall short on the administration, delivery, customer experience side, etc.

I still think that even the best need 3 chances -3 coats to get it right. That's a big investment. But the tell tale is that the second is better than the first. If not....

I've had tailors who on the second coat have introduced new issues, otherwise known as problems. And the third coat, again new issues. Goodbye.

Each individual coat/shirt needs to be better than the last. Otherwise, you have a drunken or incompetent craftsman.

A custom made shirt is a small investment. No need to overdo it.

I'm fairly convinced muslin fittings aren't necessary, but if someone enjoys and values that part of the process, then by all means go to someone who does it. That said, I know several London makers, who by any definition are bespoke. The muslin shirt is not a requirement for the bespoke label, nor is a single person handling it.

Quite agree with the post here though uppercase, especially the three coats part. My pattern with Poole was nailed on the third try, the back really got dialed in then. I did throw them a curveball by losing 30 lbs between jacket one and two though...

[davidhuh]

I'm fairly convinced muslin fittings aren't necessary, but if someone enjoys and values that part of the process, then by all means go to someone who does it. That said, I know several London makers, who by any definition are bespoke. The muslin shirt is not a requirement for the bespoke label, nor is a single person handling it.

Dear Gegarrenton,

quite agree with you that the muslin fitting is not necessary. Shirt & shoe makers plus tailors are craftsmen, similar to chefs. They come from different shools and traditions. Some will only feel comfortable with their process if this includes a muslin fitting, and if this is the case, then by all means stick to it. Who am I to tell the shirtmaker how he or she should make my shirt? I don't do this when ordering food in a restaurant. My input is limited to "I want my steak rare" or "I prefer my risotto al dente".

Mr Butcher @ Budd did a trial shirt for me, and he nailed it from the first shirt. We made tiny adjustments later on, they are not worth mentioning.

Quite agree with the post here though uppercase, especially the three coats part. My pattern with Poole was nailed on the third try, the back really got dialed in then. I did throw them a curveball by losing 30 lbs between jacket one and two though...

I work with three very different tailors, and they all got things right from the first suit. And I'm not an easy one to fit because I seem to have a funny position when standing still - this regularly creates some fun with certain garments.

Cheers, David

[gegarrenton]

I'm fairly convinced muslin fittings aren't necessary, but if someone enjoys and values that part of the process, then by all means go to someone who does it. That said, I know several London makers, who by any definition are bespoke. The muslin shirt is not a requirement for the bespoke label, nor is a single person handling it.

Dear Gegarrenton,

quite agree with you that the muslin fitting is not necessary. Shirt & shoe makers plus tailors are craftsmen, similar to chefs. They come from different shools and traditions. Some will only feel comfortable with their process if this includes a muslin fitting, and if this is the case, then by all means stick to it. Who am I to tell the shirtmaker how he or she should make my shirt? I don't do this when ordering food in a restaurant. My input is limited to "I want my steak rare" or "I prefer my risotto al dente".

Mr Butcher @ Budd did a trial shirt for me, and he nailed it from the first shirt. We made tiny adjustments later on, they are not worth mentioning.

Quite agree with the post here though uppercase, especially the three coats part. My pattern with Poole was nailed on the third try, the back really got dialed in then. I did throw them a curveball by losing 30 lbs between jacket one and two though...

I work with three very different tailors, and they all got things right from the first suit. And I'm not an easy one to fit because I seem to have a funny position when standing still - this regularly creates some fun with certain garments.

Cheers, David

Quite right, and everyone is entitled to choosing the "chef" that produces the shirt experience they want.

I wouldn't say my first suit wasn't right, it was quite right, and got, still gets great complements every wear. But the newer ones are "more right".

[hectorm]

I'm fairly convinced muslin fittings aren't necessary,..

In my more that 40 years of experience with custom made shirts I have found that the presence of muslin fittings is significantly and positively correlated with final good fit and quality of construction. But I suspect that the muslin fittings are not per se the magic formula to obtain good results but just a tell tale symptom of an overall good operation in place.

[Manself]

I too have received the sad news of Mary Frittolini's decision to take a break from making shirts. Has anyone here tried the Neapolitan d'Avino shirtmaker? It's terribly well written up on a couple of prominent forums/ blogs, but I take such recommendations with a pinch of salt!

[hsw9001]

Did you guys get an email from Mary that she's taking a break from shirt making? I have 2 shirts in the works with her.

[Concordia]

Did you guys get an email from Mary that she's taking a break from shirt making? I have 2 shirts in the works with her.

Yes. She's aiming to finish up the work she has and will go to rest in Southern Italy. I'm led to believe that this is a sabbatical and not a retirement, but apparently she was quite sick this summer.

[hsw9001]

Good to know that she might one day return. Thanks!

I have several lengths of Alumo waiting to be made up.

[Concordia]

One of the hidden, goulish benefits of going to an established shop rather than a sole proprietor. At Charvet, the departure of a sous-chef will not stop the meals from appearing nightly.

[gegarrenton]

I'm fairly convinced muslin fittings aren't necessary,..

In my more that 40 years of experience with custom made shirts I have found that the presence of muslin fittings is significantly and positively correlated with final good fit and quality of construction. But I suspect that the muslin fittings are not per se the magic formula to obtain good results but just a tell tale symptom of an overall good operation in place.

Probably accurate.