Bespoke shirtmaker

[Sartorius_2]

I live in London but alas there are no bespoke shirtmakers working here anymore.

I have been using Mary Frittolini, who has been excellent. I learn however that she will be moving back to Italy soon and taking some time off. She is not taking on any new work.

I'm therefore looking for an alternative. I recognise that I may need to travel, at least for the initial measurements and fitting, but would expect to conduct business by email and post once that process is complete.

Recommendations welcome.

[snapper]

Sartorius I realise this won't be much help to you but I am somewhat in the same boat. I had been using a shirtmaker in Fulham but have found with a change in their operating procedures there has been a corresponding decline in their quality, and so I too am looking for a new shirtmaker. My tailor recommended Choppin and Lodge and I have had a very constructive talk with them but as yet have not commissioned any shirts. I posted an enquiry here about them but got no replies from any members who had direct experience of their shirt making work.

I will be very keen to see what replies you get and more importantly any personal thoughts and feedback you publish. I wish you luck in your quest.

Regards,
Snapper

[davidhuh]

I live in London but alas there are no bespoke shirtmakers working here anymore.

Dear Sartorius,

I would not subscribe to this quote

There are several bespoke shirtmakers in town. I'm using Budd since many years and I'm very happy. Quality and fit are very consistent. The process is likely different from what Ms Frittolini is doing. What counts for me is the result.

Other operations: Turnbull & Asser, Emma Willis, Stephen Lachter (at Kent, Haste & Lachter), Robert Whittaker (at Dege & Skinner). I have no experience with those.

Cheers, David

[arch]

"I had been using a shirtmaker in Fulham but have found with a change in their operating procedures there has been a corresponding decline in their quality, and so I too am looking for a new shirtmaker"

I PM-ed you but the message did not seem to want to send. Would you be so kind as to PM me the name of the Fulham maker? I suspect I have used the same one in the past.

Thanks and all the best

[Sartorius_2]

Thanks David.

I have used London makers in the past and I recognise all of the names you quote. Accepting of course that you are happy with the work of your own maker, none of these firms make true bespoke shirts.

It is obviously a matter of personal taste but I will not use another London maker - I would rather travel to France or Italy where I hope others will be able to recommend true bespoke craftsmen/women for shirts.

[J.S. Groot]

Accepting of course that you are happy with the work of your own maker, none of these firms make true bespoke shirts.

So, this discussion again, eh?

It will be difficult to find a replacement for Mary. She is an outstanding woman and her work is sublime.

I have no personal experiences with these houses, but in Paris both Charvet and Lanvin make shirts to the specific standard of bespoke to which you subscribe, e.g. with muslin fittings. Charvet, of course, infamously refuses to engage in such frivolities as hand-sewn buttonholes, and I suppose you'd have to carve your way through a lot of gloss at Lanvin to get to the actual craftspersons still doing work there. However, the end product is, if the internet is to be believed, sterling.

[uppercase]

Nobody makes "true bespoke" anything anymore.

Everyone has a stock house style, pattern and process which they adhere to with the exception of a few minor modifications a client may ask for.

Yes, cutters at the bespoke houses will make a specific paper pattern for you to ensure a perfect fit to your own specific shape.
But they will not create for you a silhouette or pattern or style, other than their own house style.

...on second thought, this is not completely accurate.
WW Chan will create any number of styles and silhouettes on demand.
They are riffs on the classic silhouettes - rounded Neapolitan, structured Huntsman, soft A&S.

In fact, I am today wearing a Chan Neapolitan coat which I consider better made and cut and more satisfying than the two 'true' Neapolitan makers I have used - Rubinacci and Marigliano.

Go figure....tailoring talent has no national boundaries.
Although the provenance of a Chan and a Rubinacci is obviously different...if the branding and history is important to you.

[Sartorius_2]

It will be difficult to find a replacement for Mary. She is an outstanding woman and her work is sublime.

I have no personal experiences with these houses, but in Paris both Charvet and Lanvin make shirts to the specific standard of bespoke to which you subscribe, e.g. with muslin fittings. Charvet, of course, infamously refuses to engage in such frivolities as hand-sewn buttonholes, and I suppose you'd have to carve your way through a lot of gloss at Lanvin to get to the actual craftspersons still doing work there. However, the end product is, if the internet is to be believed, sterling.

From Italy, Camiceria Carmen from Turin has been a visiting shirtmaker here in my neck of the woods. She does muslin fittings, handsewing and so on. Again, however, no first-hand experience.

Thanks J.S. I did consider one of the large Parisian makers around the time I first contacted Mary. My issue was that they are double the price for what seems to be the same product (I believe Mary trained at Lanvin). An independent maker is my preference.

Does anyone else have any first hand experience with Camiceria Carmen?

[J.S. Groot]

(I believe Mary trained at Lanvin).

Not quite, but she was mentored by Pierre Duboin who used to be in charge of things there.

I agree with you preference for independent makers. I like to know the face of my maker, as it were (...). It is one of the esoteric and romantic pleasures of bespeaking clothes, I think, although I concede that there are few tanglible advantages to it.

[Rob O]

I was wondering why Mary wasn't responding to my messages. What a shame.

Maybe one of the visiting Italian maestros could fulfil your brief? Simon Crompton discusses his top three on Permanent Style:

http://www.permanentstyle.co.uk/2015/03 ... lians.html

[Concordia]

Another Italian alternative is Napoli su Misura, who seem to be visiting London from time to time. Especially if you have an excellent shirt for reference (not literal copying, of course), they might do good things for you. They are a tad less precise about detail than the British houses -- I speak of communication, not sewing -- but Mina and Dino will go over the top to make things right if their lapses are important to you. The main liability is that the team who travel are the equivalent of the front-of-shop guys on Savile Row. I have no idea who actually does the work, but it isn't them. So you're not getting the genius in the room, as you might with Ambrosi. On the other hand, they take good measurements, as well as photos or videos to show the cutters. My own shirts took about four iterations to be perfect, but I now have a very fine pattern with them and enjoy their shirts very much. And the previous two generations are actually quite good. Not so much that I would refuse acquaintance with Frittolini and Charvet, or even Budd and Udeshi, but there is a lot to like. If you were to go to Naples for a few days to see their cutters in person, you might get even faster results than I did.

Same general price range as Frittolini.

As a nice bonus, they do well-made trousers for much less than London bespoke prices. And they will work with your style preferences.

[andreyb]

I know a lady shirtmaker in Moscow who does a fitting (sometimes more than one) for *each* new shirt -- with a half-made shirt hold together with pins. Why? She insists that each cloth is different, so making a muslin sample is useless.

Does it mean that all the rest are not "true bespoke shirtmakers"?

Andrey

[davidhuh]

I know a lady shirtmaker in Moscow who does a fitting (sometimes more than one) for *each* new shirt -- with a half-made shirt hold together with pins. Why? She insists that each cloth is different, so making a muslin sample is useless.

Does it mean that all the rest are not "true bespoke shirtmakers"?

Andrey

Dear Andrey,

very good point Your lady is right to defend her craft and her methods, which doesn't mean that others doing something different are not bespoke shirtmakers... I know both worlds - the old charming lady somewhere south doing beautiful, beautiful hand made button holes plus some lack of precision here and there, and the London shirtmaker with his may be less charming but extremely well fitting product. Reliability of service and delivery is also a virtue, and I get this with Budd.

Two months ago, I took my godson to camiceria Barone in Milan because we were in need of a shirtmaker in the same town where is tweed suit is being made. We had three muslin fittings in three days. We will see the result soon, I will report. No handmade button holes - they found the idea rather amusing. But Antoine was very pleased and enjoyed the fitting fun. He is thin with very long arms. He will have a fitting shirt for the first time in his life.

Cheers, David

[uppercase]

Interesting note re Napoli su
Misura.
They are generally getting a lot of favorable reviews.

[hectorm]

I live in London but alas there are no bespoke shirtmakers working here anymore.

I would not subscribe to this quote.There are several bespoke shirtmakers in town. ....
....What counts for me is the result.

My immediate reaction was similar to David´s....until I realized that the OP was adhering to a more extreme notion of bespoke in which only one artisan is involved from the beginning to the end (leaving aside for the moment the muslin fitting and the hand-made buttonholes).
Going for that standard, and translating it into suits, none of the great firms of Savile Row would qualify as bespoke tailoring.