Bespoke neckties - how wide, and why?

[BirdofSydney]

Gents,

I have decided to commission a few neckties for the first time, most likely from Sam (David) Hober. The initial plan is for a couple of Macclesfield neat floral prints, and a couple of reppe solids and basketweaves. The former will be lined six-folds; the latter probably lined four-folds (taking into account the more substantial silk). I would like some prints by Cappelli, but I think that I'll feel better visiting in person somewhere down the track rather than ordering online.

Although there is plenty of information on this forum and others on tie choices, materials, and construction, I am somewhat vexed over the issue of tie width.

Of my RTW tie collection, all of my favourites are on the wider side - 9.5 or even 10cm. I am neither especially tall (175cm), nor especially wide (68kg on a good day). Yet, nothing under 9cm at a very minimum seems to get much wear, although I don't find more moderate widths (say 8-9cm) unattractive on others.

Three possible arguments suggest themselves to me for my choice:

1. Harmony with other aspects of the outfit - I like wider lapels and high notches, as well as wide spread collars and high collarbands;

2. Rebellion against fashion - while other young (and plenty of older) professionals try to look trendy with skinny ties, I prefer a more traditional look;

3. Physical and psychological comfort - a wider tie does not flop about or blow in the wind, and it fills the 'V' of a buttoned coat neatly and fully.

There is a possibility, however, that it's simply a causation/correlation fallacy, and that it just so happens that my favourite patterns and silks have come in wider widths (I like Bulgari's animal prints, as well as some solids and paisleys by other Italian makers in ample proportions), which also happen to tie a good knot. But I've had some lovely ties in narrower widths (Drake's springs to mind) that I just couldn't enjoy.

So I ask you, Loungers, how wide do you order your ties, and why? I'm assuming that few of you are swayed by fashion, but you might be guided by style icons? Or do you go by your physical build? Other elements of your outfit? Some kind of mathematical ratio? Or just gut instinct?

I thank you in advance for your assistance.

Kind regards,


Bird

[T.K.]

Hi Bird,
I am of similar bodily proportions as you and I have ordered many ties from David Hober. All of them are 7.5 cm or 8 cm at the widest point. None of them I consider 'skinny'. In the end it all comes down to a personal interpretation of what a well proportioned image is and an understanding of what is comfortable for you. I don't like the feel of a large knot under my throat and I don't like the look of a fully filled out jacket's opening. So a more bar shaped tie with a lining lighter than David's default for me. I guess it's all about the first and the third point you make. Fashion is something I try not to follow nor to rebel against. The only way is to experiment.

Good luck !

[Concordia]

Gents,
...might you be guided by style icons? Or do you go by your physical build? Other elements of your outfit? Some kind of mathematical ratio? Or just gut instinct?

Yes.

[loarbmhs]

I've gotten bespoke ties from both Hober and Drake's. They're all just under 9 cm. (3.5")—consistent, and therefore balanced, with the 3.5" lapels on my jackets. It's a nice compromise between too narrow and too wide, and I hope, timeless. I also prefer to see some white of my shirt around the tie, and a 9+ cm. would fill the entire vee in the suit opening. I know you mentioned you like that look, but I lean toward the narrower ties for the opposite reason.

[Rob O]

I have to order longer neckties from Drakes due to my build - usually in the region of 160cm in length. I find they look much better proportioned when the blade is 9cm wide. Any narrower and I start to look like I'm trying too hard. I must have 40-50 ties but always reach for the same few Drakes ties when dressing in the morning. I think narrow ties are but a flash in the pan.

[BirdofSydney]

Thank you all.

I've gotten bespoke ties from both Hober and Drake's. They're all just under 9 cm. (3.5")—consistent, and therefore balanced, with the 3.5" lapels on my jackets. It's a nice compromise between too narrow and too wide, and I hope, timeless. I also prefer to see some white of my shirt around the tie, and a 9+ cm. would fill the entire vee in the suit opening. I know you mentioned you like that look, but I lean toward the narrower ties for the opposite reason.

I have just measured the lapel on my favourite suit, and it is, indeed, precisely 9.5cm. So it seems that I too am 1:1 with tie and lapel width.

In relation to the coat, I think that I phrased myself poorly to begin. I'm not advocating hiding the shirt entirely, like a napkin; rather, I like some fullness where the tie intersects with the buttoned coat - my experience of narrower ties is that, unless clipped, they often lurch to one side or the other, or just lay flat and lifeless.

I think narrow ties are but a flash in the pan.

A cynic might suggest a ploy by manufacturers to charge the same price but use less silk...

[rodes]

Birdofsydney,
I always opt for the traditional 9 cm width and ask for a tie that is somewhat thicker than the standard norm. To my eye, they look, drape and knot better than the newer, thin fashion.
I have perhaps a dozen ties made by David. The value is unmatched. Have not found anyone that can equal the fine quality at anywhere close to the price. Indeed at any price. I always get exactly what I ordered, on time and with good service. That reminds me, I must order 5 more.

[hectorm]

So I ask you, Loungers, how wide do you order your ties, and why? I'm assuming that few of you are swayed by fashion, but you might be guided by style icons? Or do you go by your physical build? Other elements of your outfit? Some kind of mathematical ratio? Or just gut instinct?

I strongly favor a rather long four-in-hand knot. Therefore, while I can live with a maximum tie width of anything in the 9-10 cm range, much more important for me is the width farther up from the tip, at the spot where you tie your knot.
A width up the middle of about 6.5 cm generally plays well. But it´s not an absolute measure since it has yet to interact with the consistency of the silk, the thickness of the lining and the number of folds. For a standard lined printed silk 3-fold, it works well, while for a lined 7-fold grenadine, it leads to a knot that not even Prince Michael would dare (well, maybe only he would).
RTW neckties with all the characteristics I want (dimensions, construction, etc.) are not common, but they are not so rare that I feel compelled to have them bespoken. A few years back I commissioned from Hobber my 7-folds because "I had to have a 7-fold" and I couldn´t find them anywhere, but looking back I consider that a mistake.
By now I just need to pick up a tie and run my fingers through it, and I immediately know whether it will work or not. Call it an "educated" gut instinct.

[rodes]

hectorm,
As always, your answer is subtle and most correct. The critical dimension is not the width at the widest part, but rather the width (and thickness) at the point where you tie the knot. This more than anything else effects the presentation of a knotted tie. Thank you for your attention to detail.

[BirdofSydney]

Birdofsydney,
I always opt for the traditional 9 cm width and ask for a tie that is somewhat thicker than the standard norm. To my eye, they look, drape and knot better than the newer, thin fashion.
I have perhaps a dozen ties made by David. The value is unmatched. Have not found anyone that can equal the fine quality at anywhere close to the price. Indeed at any price. I always get exactly what I ordered, on time and with good service. That reminds me, I must order 5 more.

Dear Rodes,

Thank you for the recommendation. If I were to raise a single criticism of David's offering, it's that he doesn't have enough Macclesfield silks available at any given time - a victim of his own success, no doubt! Of course, all the best ones are in navy, but there are worse problems to have...

I strongly favor a rather long four-in-hand knot. Therefore, while I can live with a maximum tie width of anything in the 9-10 cm range, much more important for me is the width farther up from the tip, at the spot where you tie your knot.
A width up the middle of about 6.5 cm generally plays well. But it´s not an absolute measure since it has yet to interact with the consistency of the silk, the thickness of the lining and the number of folds. For a standard lined printed silk 3-fold, it works well, while for a lined 7-fold grenadine, it leads to a knot that not even Prince Michael would dare (well, maybe only he would).
RTW neckties with all the characteristics I want (dimensions, construction, etc.) are not common, but they are not so rare that I feel compelled to have them bespoken. A few years back I commissioned from Hobber my 7-folds because "I had to have a 7-fold" and I couldn´t find them anywhere, but looking back I consider that a mistake.
By now I just need to pick up a tie and run my fingers through it, and I immediately know whether it will work or not. Call it an "educated" gut instinct.

Thanks, Hector.

I think that my instincts are pretty good, but now that I am spoiled with the choice to commission whatever I like, it becomes that much harder!

In addition to a reasonably 'long' knot, I also like a ripple of small dimples, rather than one large one. I also prefer a knot that knots quite tightly and holds, with a minimal need to fiddle or re-tighten. This too militates against an overly heavy tie, I think.

I am tending towards 9cm at this stage. My initial theory about confirmation bias leading me to a preference for even wider widths is looking increasingly like it's the case. But now I have realised that I will also have to work out the proper width down the blade. The task continues...

Cheers,


Bird

[hectorm]

In addition to a reasonably 'long' knot, I also like a ripple of small dimples, rather than one large one. I also prefer a knot that knots quite tightly and holds, with a minimal need to fiddle or re-tighten.

Then, in this case I would not hesitate in recommending an unlined necktie.