Traditional tweed suit project

[Sir Royston]

Sir
Did you ever get round to having the Suit made??

[Mr Hillier]

Sir Royston:

The suit is still in the pipeline. Watch this space...

Hillier

[Mr Hillier]

I'm just reviewing this thread, is a 'J-pocket' the same as a 'jeans pocket'?

If not, what are they?

[Mr Hillier]

I'm reviewing this thread, as I am intending to have this suit made up in the very near future. Having had the project simmering out of sight for a couple of years, I am fully convinced by all the arguments for simplicity and lack of embellishment.

There are a couple of points I'm not too clear about, could anyone help clear them up?

Firstly, the large inside pockets in the coat:

I have a large pocket sewn on the inside in the way of a game bag to carry most everything. One might think to have two large pockets, one on each side.

make sure you have enough pockets because you will probably be able to wear it without a topocoat, an inside envelope pocket is often useful

Could anyone post a picture of this type of pocket? I assume it would be constructed in the lining of the coat, what kind of lining would be appropriate? Also, any details of the configuration of internal pockets generally in this type of garment would be very useful.

Secondly, the J-pockets, or jeans pockets: does anyone have a picture of these in a pair of tweed trousers?

Thirdly, the pocket flaps:

Adding thickness and weight in the way of pocket flaps makes a coat cumbersome. Try to keep it as simple as possible given your intended purpose. If you want gusseted pockets to carry kit around the outdoors you can choose to have them or you can prefer a good set of inner pockets that can serve the same purpose when needed and keep the line of the coat cleaner and slimmer

Are we talking about welted pockets with no flaps here?

As things stand, the configuration I am planning is exactly as Alden suggests, with very slight differences. Firstly, I'm planning a tab collar, and secondly, I may do without the pockets in the back of the trousers, as none of my trousers have them, and the only time I use them is to put change or tickets in when I'm wearing jeans.

Any information very much appreciated, I look forward to showing you the finished article.

[Mr Hillier]

So, I'm just about to order this suit, and here is the final configuration, and perhaps more importantly, the reasoning behind the decisions.

Jacket

-single breasted
-3 button
-twin vents

I don't think there is anything controversial here, I did consider a 2-button jacket, but the tailor I am planning to ask to make this suit has made both 3 button and 2 button jackets for me, and I prefer the 3 button, so I'm sticking with that.

-action back
-half belt

This is for comfort and mobility, I am unlikely to do any shooting, but whiskey drinking, wood cutting, tree climbing, and enthusiastic outdoor stir-fries are all possible. And fishing of some sort is a dead cert.

-straight welted flapped hip pockets

I have thought long and hard about whether to order a jacket with flapped bellows pockets. In favour of bellows pockets with button down flaps, one thing I am sure to use this jacket for is travelling, and my usual travel MO is to carry a very small knapsack, and keep essential items - passport, wallet and mobile phone - in the front two pockets of my Barbour International jacket. That way they are not only secure but also accessible. However, two considerations have steered me away from bellows pockets. Firstly, obviously, they completely alter the line of the jacket, and fall on the functional as opposed to the elegant side of the line. Allied with this, an issue arises as to what kind of breast pocket should accompany bellows pockets on the hip. A standard welted pocket, though common on a tweed jacket with bellows pockets , looks mis-matched and unbalanced to my eye. An alternative would be a flapped pocket, but this would move the whole thing another step towards the functional aesthetic, and make a pocket handkerchief impossible, so limiting the possibilities for dressing up the jacket. Secondly, I believe the tailor I have in mind has much less experience with bellows pockets, and I very much want to avoid unpleasant surprises.

-two large internal 'game' pockets, left and right

For sheer practicality.

-tab collar

Again, for practicality.

-3 button cuffs

This is simply an unobtrusive choice.

Overall, the jacket will be cut with an emphasis on comfort and freedom of movement. I want a suit which is the most comfortable piece of clothing I can imagine.

Waistcoat

-4 pockets, welted, no flaps
-lapels

I have decided to request lapels on the waistcoat. The reasoning for this decision is that every other feature of the suit is selected on a minimal practicality basis, and I will have one detail which is slightly decorative. This is not an unusual feature on tweed suits, in fact most seem to feature this, and also, with the jacket being quite plain, I think the overall balance will be good. Also, I wonder if the extra bulk around the neckline will make the suit slightly warmer.

As an aside, if I were to go for bellows pockets, I think lapels on the waistcoat would definitely be over-egging the pudding.

I did consider requesting a waistcoat with a tweed back, but have decided against this, mainly on the basis of 'when in doubt, leave it out'.

Trousers

-plain front
-button fly
-belt loops and buttons for braces
-J-pockets (slanted also acceptable)
-no back pockets
-2 inch turnups
-unlined

The trousers with be emphatically cut for comfort and freedom of movement. I accept that side-adjusters will not work with fabric this heavy, nor will pleats. Buttons for braces make the trousers more versatile, and I will see which method of support I prefer. The trousers will be unlined, because I cannot think of any benefits of lining which sufficiently outweigh the disadvantages. For the disadvantages, linings are cold in winter, hot in summer, and they stick to the leg when wet because of rain or sweat. This is heavy tweed, so even in the event it does get wet, it will hang free from the leg and will thus be warmer even when wet. I have no objection to tweed against the skin.

Plus Twos

-plain front
-button fly
-belt loops and buttons for braces
-slanted pockets
-no back pockets
-unlined
-buckle and strap knee fastening

Again, conservative choices. I'm not sure if J-pockets would work on plus twos, so I'm leaving them out. On thinking about when I may wear these plus twos, I have realised that they may be useful for cycling, and as such, I may discuss a reinforced crotch gusset with the tailor. However, unless he is very confident of being able to do a good job, I will stick to the standard version.

That, as they say, is that. I am grateful for the suggestions from the members, and am pleased with the direction the suggestions have taken me in. I appreciate that after over six years since starting the thread I may be the only one still here, but in any case, the time for this suit has come, and in the words of the great Mississippi Fred McDowell, "When the lord gets ready, you got to move".

I will faithfully record all progress for posterity.

Roger and out.

[Tutumulut]

Mr Hillier

First of all, I want to thank you for resurrecting your own thread and in particular your latest contribution. As I hope to receive the Thornproof cloth from the fall subscription someday soon (my first cloth! I'm nervous like a little boy for Santa... Oh, wait...), your choices and, more importantly, thought process, provide lots of inspiration.

I am also considering bellows pockets but the line is as important to me as it is to you and I am now thinking of having them open up on the inside rather than the outside as I do like to ability to bring a tablet, a notebook and what not. For that purpose, the game pockets seem a great idea, although I haven't been able to find any pictures and therefore don't know where they are entered from: side seam (as I have with 1 jacket), front seam reaching all the way through, separate inside seam?

Trouser wise I'm considering 2 inward pleats for elegance and comfort. All my RTW have no pleats, but I like the idea of a (very) high waisted pair (being tall and having a balance upper and lower body, that should be no problem) that is ample without resembling a zoot suit.

My Napolitano tailor (well, I've done 2 commissions before in my life, but can't wait to go back) will be surprised I'm sure, but I don't mind trying something risqué. I like to get out of my own comfort zone and want to drag him along.

Again, thank you Mr Hillier, and do share your progress! Can't wait to see the result.

T

[Mr Hillier]

Dear Mr T,

Thank you for your comments. The line is important, although I don't know how a coat like this will look with with inside pockets stuffed to bursting with saucisson sec and cans of McEwans Export. As such, the internal pockets may well end up interfering with the line as much as bellows pockets, unless empty.

In any case, you are right, pictures of good inside pockets are very hard to find, and I only came up with three. The first is lifted from a forum somewhere, and the accompanying discussion mentioned all kinds of wild reasons for the existence of the pocket. To me, it seems very obvious that it is an envelope pocket - there is nothing worse than getting on a bus or a train with an envelope or sheaf of papers in one's hands with nowhere to stow it.



The next two are referred to as 'Logsdail' pockets, which I take to mean that they are a speciality of the well-known tailor of the same name. As you can see, there is a supporting strap from the armpit which takes the weight of the contents of the pocket. Could it also be used for other more nefarious purposes? Perhaps only Mr Logsdail himself knows what was really in his mind when he came up with this hideously cunning invention.





I also found this, a blog post on a Henry Poole jacket with pockets for Aston Martin spark plugs. Forgive me if the details are hazy, this is a step further than I would like to go.

http://style-attachment-log.blogspot.co ... ative.html

You do mention pleats in your thornproof trousers, my understanding is that thornproof is a heavy cloth. I was initially considering pleats in my tweed trousers, when Mr Alden helpfully enlightened me:

Pleats on heavy tweeds do not work too well... ...keep the cut simple and full.

Simple and full... simple and full... simple and full... that is now my mantra.

One last thought on the subject of pockets, how about these:



Similar rounded pockets are also seen. They give some of the benefits of bellows pockets, but also preserve the line of the jacket somewhat. Food for thought...

[Tutumulut]

Dear Mr Hillier

You're absolutely right about the internal bellows pockets of course in the sense that the line would be equally ruined when stuffed to the brim. The idea is that such occasions would be very rare and a disturbed line once in a while I could live with.

But what you have shown here as 'Logsdail' pockets are simply brilliant and brilliant in their simplicity. Something I will definitely would like to see end up in my thornproof. But the 'pleated' outside pockets you have shown the example of are also tempting... The ultimate question is, I guess, how dressed or how rural one wants the suit to look like. I'm not there yet.

And I will definitely keep your and Michael's suggestion in mind of having flat fronted trousers. In fact, I will follow the advice. I would love to have them without belt loops or suspender buttons, but if you say after your investigations it can't be done properly, I will have buttons then and a high tailed back. It would be my first pair of trousers without belt loops and I'm looking forward to that.

Food for thought indeed, or should I ask myself, what food for what pocket on that future long walk in the mountains?

Thank you.

T

[davidhuh]

And I will definitely keep your and Michael's suggestion in mind of having flat fronted trousers.

Dear Tutumulut,

on such trousers, I have a dart instead of pleats. It looks flat front, but gives me the comfort of pleated trousers.

Cheers, David

[hectorm]

I do like to ability to bring a tablet, a notebook and what not. For that purpose, the game pockets seem a great idea, although I haven't been able to find any pictures and therefore don't know where they are entered from: side seam (as I have with 1 jacket), front seam reaching all the way through, separate inside seam?

Dear Rick,
for years I have been using two types of game pockets in custom-made jackets for carrying stuff hands free. This practicality has always trumped any concern regarding the possible loss of an elegant line, although I have tried it only on very sturdy sack-style jackets (heavy corduroys and cheviots). The lower back game pocket with external side seam zippered opening has proved to be useful for the Sunday newspaper or books. Although this pocket was lined in a waterproof fabric, I never put that feature to good use. Nowadays I´m more fond of the side (under the arm) big game pocket with inside access only. It´s something more like a double lining pocket, the kind you see in overcoats (or the tails of your morning coat ), but reinforced with a vertical elastic strap anchored at the arm pit to support the weight (sorry, no pictures). I have been carrying my sizable Mac Book Air there, so one of the newer tablets will pose no problem.

[Tutumulut]

Hectorm

Thank you for your practical insight; good to see you chime in. The big under the arm game pocket you describe seems to be very close to the ones in the two pictures presented by Mr Hillier. Can you confirm that is the case?

And if I may tap your infinite knowledge on everything game pocket , would you expect the thornproof to be sturdy enough? I could already see myself smuggle medium sized pieces of marble in such fashion across the border.

Thanks again,

T

[Mr Hillier]

Dear Tutumulut,

What an unfortunate coincidence, smuggling small to medium sized pieces of marble (or marble style) contraband was my precise plan, it looks like there may be competition in this field!

[hectorm]

The big under the arm game pocket you describe seems to be very close to the ones in the two pictures presented by Mr Hillier. Can you confirm that is the case?
...., would you expect the thornproof to be sturdy enough? I could already see myself smuggle medium sized pieces of marble in such fashion across the border.

Sorry I hadn't paid attention to the pictures on the thread when I responded regarding the game pockets. I have to recognize that Mr. Hillier's very nice examples are done better than mine. My elastic support strap goes straight from armpit to bottom of the pocket without the benefit of a button. I have to slide the laptop sideways stretching the strap and then, down in. Overall my underarm game pocket is bigger but it's not self finished with a handsome besom opening like Mr. Hillier's.
Regarding thornproof capability: the only thornproof I own is a Porter & Harding at almost 20 oz. and it's a beast. But this one is not the jacket with the game pocket. The "game" carrier it’s a Holland & Sherry corduroy at around 17/18 oz.I believe. My laptop is almost 3 pounds heavy and the jacket does not flinch. So, given LL Cloth Club reputation for substantial fabrics of great quality, I'm sure yours will perfectly stand the weight of those Carrara slabs.

[Mr Hillier]

Hectorm,

The pictures of large inside pockets I posted are simply images found during my research, they are not my jackets.

Regards,

Mr Hillier

[lgcintra]

If my recollection is correct, that picture comes from the possibly now-extinct Brookster website, doesn´t it?