Cuffs on a contrast collar shirt

[Cantabrigian]

I know that as a rule, a contrast collar shirt (with contrasting cuffs) ought to have double cuffs.

My question is whether or not this rule may be gracefully bent.

Specifically, I am thinking of having a shirt made with red stripes and a contrast collar & cuffs for the holiday season -- but for somewhat informal family gatherings, I feel that a french cuff shirt would be a bit too much.

Thanks,
Cantab

[dopey]

I believe that double (a/k/a French) cuffs are typical with contrast collar shirts. At the same time, button cuffs are acceptable, and in some circumstances, may look better, e.g. with a DB blazer. Another possibility if you want to ratchet back the formality is to get a white collar but self-fabric cuffs. Perhaps the rules are more rigid than my response would indicate, but I am certain that there is flexibility here.

I will note that the only contrast collar shirts I have result from replacements where the original fabric was unavailable. I see no point in ordering them this way to start, as, at this point, I already have sufficient. You might want to consider doing things this way so you have some variety to look forward to.

[onthelistbaby]

I too have several shirts with a contrast collar, but standard barrel cuffs. They also result from unhappiness with the original result, or a change for some other reason. I do not have any trouble wearing them without a contrasting, double cuff.

As far as the correctness goes, I'll leave it for the more expert members (Mr. Kabbaz?), but I see it done often, and by gentlemen whose taste I respect.

[BirdofSydney]

Certainly it is possible, it would be less heinous than the other cuff/collar combinations currently under the LL microscope.

I would catiously venture that white cuffs/collar is a dressed-up style. Certainly the context in which it became famous in the '80s as the bankers' shirt was one of power-dressing. The original significance, so I understand, was one of wealth and comfort, signifying as it did how frequently one could afford to have cuffs and collars laundered. It even harks back to the overlong white cuffs worn by French (?) nobles, to signify that they never dirtied their hands with manual work.

As such, double cuffs would stand to reason. I've seen them with contrast collars but not cuffs, this is a little less dressy of course (and to my mind less appealing). With silk knots instead of metal links, it can be reasonably dressed down. I know designer labels like Polo Ralph Lauren are making awning-stripe versions with crests or button-down collars or other such silliness, but at heart, it really shouldn't be a casual look.

If you are going to go for barrel cuffs, I'd have them in the same fabric as the shirt, so it's not some odd formal/casual hybrid, but a casual shirt that happens to have a white collar.

Best,

Eden

[Incroyable]

I feeel that single-link cuffs offer an elegant, not often seen, alternative.

[TVD]

Having been through a white collar and cuff phase myself, I have come to the conclusion that this is only convincingly pulled off by combining a stiff white separate collar with a coloured tunic shirt.

At a stretch a normal attached white collar will do, but with self colour cuffs.

In Europe, the other varieties will look sharp, but trying too hard. I guess New York may be a different matter.

This does not mean I do not wear white collar and cuffs myself, after all, I have about two dozen shirts of that variety to go through first...

[Cantabrigian]

I do like that look myself (like Robert Redford in the Great Gatsby)

Thank you for all your responses. I believe that I will try this shirt with contrast barrel cuffs.

I feeel that single-link cuffs offer an elegant, not often seen, alternative.

[manton]

At the same time, button cuffs are acceptable, and in some circumstances, may look better, e.g. with a DB blazer. Another possibility if you want to ratchet back the formality is to get a white collar but self-fabric cuffs. Perhaps the rules are more rigid than my response would indicate, but I am certain that there is flexibility here.

In my hermetically sealed universe, there is no flexibilty. Contrast collars take french cuffs only. Or single cuffs if you order them from Kabbaz. They should not have a button cuff. The principle is, the white collar is a throwback, a reflection of a stiff separate collar. It is therefore a most formal detail. It should be paired with a formal-style cuff. That is in any case the tradition of English shirtmakers. I think it is sound. Most New York shirtmakers follow it as well. I am aware that the Italians are less rigid about this. It reminds me of some of their other stylistic pecularities, like sewing a broad, raised stripe near the edge of a white collar. I wouldn't do that either. But hey, it's only clothes.

I will note that the only contrast collar shirts I have result from replacements where the original fabric was unavailable. I see no point in ordering them this way to start, as, at this point, I already have sufficient. You might want to consider doing things this way so you have some variety to look forward to.

Good advice. I do exactly the same thing. I have, in my life, only ordered one shirt with a white collar and cuffs to start. It is an incredibly busy blue and red antique stripe withe a white ground. I thought it would look best with a white collar and cuiffs. I still do, thought I don't wear it often. It is not quiet.

[Incroyable]

There are also colorued cuff shirts that will probably require one to go custom.

As here:

[Metcalfe]

Can anyone recommend a shirtmaker who will replace worn cuffs and collars on RTW shirts? I'm not seeking cotton to match the original pattern. It seems that most shirtmakers I've asked will only repair their own work. Thank you for considering the question.

Metcalfe

[Cantabrigian]

As I noted at the outset, I did recognize that it was not strictly correct to wear any non-French cuff with such a shirt and when the moment came to decide today, I opted for French cuffs - just couldn't bring myself to do otherwise.

At the same time, button cuffs are acceptable, and in some circumstances, may look better, e.g. with a DB blazer. Another possibility if you want to ratchet back the formality is to get a white collar but self-fabric cuffs. Perhaps the rules are more rigid than my response would indicate, but I am certain that there is flexibility here.

In my hermetically sealed universe, there is no flexibilty. Contrast collars take french cuffs only. Or single cuffs if you order them from Kabbaz. They should not have a button cuff. The principle is, the white collar is a throwback, a reflection of a stiff separate collar. It is therefore a most formal detail. It should be paired with a formal-style cuff. That is in any case the tradition of English shirtmakers. I think it is sound. Most New York shirtmakers follow it as well. I am aware that the Italians are less rigid about this. It reminds me of some of their other stylistic pecularities, like sewing a broad, raised stripe near the edge of a white collar. I wouldn't do that either. But hey, it's only clothes.

I will note that the only contrast collar shirts I have result from replacements where the original fabric was unavailable. I see no point in ordering them this way to start, as, at this point, I already have sufficient. You might want to consider doing things this way so you have some variety to look forward to.

Good advice. I do exactly the same thing. I have, in my life, only ordered one shirt with a white collar and cuffs to start. It is an incredibly busy blue and red antique stripe withe a white ground. I thought it would look best with a white collar and cuiffs. I still do, thought I don't wear it often. It is not quiet.

[TVD]

On second thoughts, another observation on white collars and cuffs:

In London, an Englishman will only be seen in white collar (and optionally cuffs) in a business suit. Even then, this look is legal (with stiff collar) or "Old City". White collars and cuffs outside a suit (whether you wear a jacket & tie or not) are considered bad taste (barrow boy raffish), or you are a foreigner.

Americans in London like them with odd jackets, then usually with a tie (imagine Dominic Dunne in his photographs in Vanity Fair). Europeans, and especially fashion forward Italians use the added contrast of the white collar to add interest when not wearing a tie. The collars tends to be high, but not much cut away and sports two or three buttons. Very much a Brompton Cross brunch look.

For the latter two categories, it does not matter what cuff you wear. For the English variety, a double cuff should be chosen. There is not a "wrong" option here, but the people you are mixing with should be considered, because they will interpret your choice in very different ways indeed.

[alden]

TVD

The oldest sticklers would not permit white collars and cuffs, period. More lenient critics, as you rightly point out, consent to their wear with a business suit, preferably with French cuffs. The community of those who would wear same with an odd jacket is limited to visitors and tourists who are trying to ape English chic but who have gotten it all wrong (not an unusual phenom.)

Like many custom shirt devotees I have my shirts cut very long. When new collars are needed, guess where they come from. And when those wear out, we can add white collars and cuffs. Doing so, we avoid throwing anything away until the last possible moment. The problem is that some of the old fabrics we used to have access to, simply refuse to give up the ghost!

Cheers

[westender]

As an Englishman it is quite amusing to see people buying new white collared and cuffed shirts. Historically these are usually old shirts that have been recuffed and collared which is why you see them in the older parts of the City. This is a state shirts arrive at, new shirts in this style would be seen as rather 'flash', a pastiche.

Historically the upper class has retained it's wealth, in part,, by buying quality products and then patching them up so they spend less money in the long run. There is a lovely section in the Alan Clark diaries where he damns a political rival as the sort of person who "bought all their own furniture." Mind you, this also accounts for why many of them look like tramps albeit with bespoke clothing.

In NYC it is considered perfectly acceptable to buy these shirts, a nice example of rthe problems of trying to apply rules universally.

[manton]

We're really talking about two different animals, are we not?

The detachable collar shirt always takes a white collar, even when new, no matter what color the body and sleeves are. In ye olden days, some shirts even had detachable white cufs that slipped on over a soft attached cuff that looked a lot like a single like cuff. Then the cuff links were pressed through six layers: outer fold of detachable cuff, attached cuff, inner fold of detachable cuff, on each side. Not so comfortable. No wonder it didn't last. (Does anyone, anywhere, make those anymore?) Anyway, the detachable collar shirt survives, barely, mostly in England for wear with morning dress and by barristers and people who just really like to look spiffy.

The origin of the attached contrast collar is somewhat mysterious. In perusing the literature, one will come across the story of the Troy, NY housewife who in the mid-19th century tired of washing her husband's shirts when only the collar was dirty. So she cut the collars off and washed them separately. Aside from being somewhat implausbile, and being contradicted by other evidence, one will have a hard time finding any truly reliable source that confirms this. I think it is safe to say that it is probably not true.

What is true? Either that men replaced worn out collars with white when the original cloth was no longer available, or that they ordered some shirts that way from the beginning in an attempt to evoke the look of a detachable collar shirt. Both practices no doubt took place decades ago and take place now. The question is, Which came first? Which explains the origin of the attached contrast collar shirt? I don't think that question can ever be answered.

Either way, I think both types of shirt require a link cuff. Certainly, that is the historical practice. Beyond that, I think it looks best.