Linen instead of cotton as basic shirting

[alden]

Could be. Then I would be interested in some solid writing on the characteristics of linen and comparison to cotton.

There is a good deal of information in this very thread.

The faulty information is contained here: "Personally, I advise against linen. Yes, it is light and it absorbs water like a sponge; unless you are wearing a revolutionary deodorant, you will spend the day with marks under the arms as soon as you break into a sweat."

Good quality linen shirting is not light. It is heavy and much heavier than most cottons. I think the error in the writer's judgement stem from a lack of experience and knowledge of the subject being treated (that elicited Concordia's pertinent remark.) The only shirting linen that is light is defective linen, the kind we would not even think about making into bespoke shirts. A lightweight linen woven in who knows where would perform no better than an average cotton.

Good thick Irish shirting linen, absorbs moisture, but as it is thick it can absorb a good deal without leaving any marks (never had them, ever, and that includes brutally hot Sicilian days.) The absorbed moisture not only leaves no marks, but actually acts to cool the wearer. The slightest bit of a breeze is refreshing.

Cotton is the most uncomfortable choice on a hot steamy day. And inferior quality linen is only slightly better.

The most "solid" information you can get is to make up a good quality linen yourself and give it a try. Do it.

Cheers

[Pierre Spies]

The science backs up Michael's observance that linen has natural insulating properties.

LX,

Another very interesting post. I discovered the warming properties of linen accidentally this winter. One morning I got up very early to get goods from the local baker (warm fresh out of the oven croissants.) I grabbed a shirt and threw it on stumbling in the dark and put a thick camelhair sweater (another luxury) on over. When I stepped outside it was almost snowing and I thought to go back and get a coat, but the croissant aroma was too strong and I had a short brisk walk to my destination. I noticed the warmth almost immediately. It was a wonderful dry warmth, like the kind you feel from burning well seasoned wood in a cast iron stove. When I got back home I noticed I was wearing one of my new (test) linen shirts. I kept it on the rest of the day and went out for some longer walks. Then I changed to a cotton shirt to see the difference. I was noticeably cooler in the cotton and especially on my skin. Over the following days I wore almost exclusively linen and after that decided to make the change. And since linen shirts work well with the way I dress, so it was all goodness.

Having read your report on linen, it all makes perfect sense to me now.

Cheers

Michael

I went dog sledding in Lapland this February and challenged myself to not buy technical crap from shops. I brought my 5 LL linen shirts and only one heavy wool Brittany sweater which belonged to my grandpa and a snowboard jacket.
I never felt once cold wearing the shirts, and even dropped the sweater after a few hourson the first day. Granted the temperature was only -15 celcius.
I felt warmer than all the others from my group and would even sdrop the jacket when we stopped to allow for the linen to dry - which it did in matters of seconds whereas my friends were soaked wet in their cosmonauts plastic t shirts...

[Rob O]

With these wondrous properties I marvel at how and why linen has dropped from grace. Even companies with commitment to fabric like Zegna and Loro Piana use it so seldom. I am nonplussed.

[Screaminmarlon]

Maybe the problem is: good linen being Irish and woven there instead of Biella?

Joking aside, many use linen in addition to silk and/or wool with good results, but pure linen is a different beast

[C.Lee]

Linen is also heavy, somewhat rough on the skin and prone to wrinkling. Goes against the very things focused on in luxury menswear: high super numbers, lightness, and a shiny facade.

I am fine keeping linen our little secret.

[alden]

I went dog sledding in Lapland this February and challenged myself to not buy technical crap from shops. I brought my 5 LL linen shirts and only one heavy wool Brittany sweater which belonged to my grandpa and a snowboard jacket.
I never felt once cold wearing the shirts, and even dropped the sweater after a few hourson the first day. Granted the temperature was only -15 celcius.
I felt warmer than all the others from my group and would even sdrop the jacket when we stopped to allow for the linen to dry - which it did in matters of seconds whereas my friends were soaked wet in their cosmonauts plastic t shirts...

Ha! Great story.

Cheers

Michael

[alden]

I am fine keeping linen our little secret.

I second the motion!

Cheers

[hectorm]

Linen is also heavy, somewhat rough on the skin and prone to wrinkling. Goes against the very things focused on in luxury menswear: high super numbers, lightness, and a shiny facade. I am fine keeping linen our little secret.

I would like to add to the secrecy by stating that really heavy linen (10+ oz.) trousers are great for colder weather too. I have experimented with that and it´s been a success. They form a solid screen around your legs and keep you wind proof and warm up to around 5-10 Celsius. A few minor problems though: they are still kind of cold and rustic to the touch, the drape is not the best, and -above all- I don´t know where to get more cloth like that! An upholstery shop, maybe.

[couch]

I will confess to having had a lovely pair of trousers made from a piece of very heavy unbleached linen I found in the basement at Beckenstein's fabrics on 39th Street in Manhattan several years ago. Based on the other cottons and linens around it on the shelves, I suspect it was originally intended to be upsholstery fabric, but it made up beautifully and holds a formidable crease. If you trust your hand and eye, you needn't necessarily rule out upholstery linen for trousers and jackets--just make sure it doesn't have any unwanted coatings or treatments applied.

[alden]

I would like to add to the secrecy by stating that really heavy linen (10+ oz.) trousers are great for colder weather too. I have experimented with that and it´s been a success. They form a solid screen around your legs and keep you wind proof and warm up to around 5-10 Celsius. A few minor problems though: they are still kind of cold and rustic to the touch, the drape is not the best, and -above all- I don´t know where to get more cloth like that! An upholstery shop, maybe

I thought I was the only one who wore upholstery linen (550 gms plus actually used to line helicopter interiors )! I have access to some and I will have to see what colors we could make it in. White is easy. We might have to do a commission. How many of you would be keen to get some?

Cheers

[Concordia]

Speaking of which, A&S has no record of receiving the linen book, although they do have the flannels.

[alden]

Speaking of which, A&S has no record of receiving the linen book, although they do have the flannels.

They were sent one. I will check on it. Thanks

Cheers

[Rob O]

As a slight aside - what do the loungers think about linen shirts without collars? Richard Rogers skilfully employs them as his signature style. Do you think their minimal aesthetic are suitable only for globally-lauded architects or can they work for hoi polloi like myself?

[couch]

Well, leaving aside questions of how one would pair a band collar with jacket (and tie), this photo suggests that Rogers has a fairly short neck. Whether the style would suit you depends partly on proportions such as this. Band collars, crew-neck t-shirts, and "mock turtlenecks" all look bad on me because I have a longish neck--their low height exaggerates that rather than complementing it. A Nehru-collar jacket with the collar cut tall enough, on the other hand, could be fine.

[Simon A]

The mandarin collar gives it an "ethnic" flavour (be it Chinese tangzhuang, or Indian kurta, or Caucasian akhaluki). If you like it, give it a try. It is fine for casual shirts.