Burgundy Shoes

[rodes]

I rotate six pairs of Edward Green shoes for business. The three pair of dark oak get the most wear; the two of burnt pine get employed with suiting of lighter color, especially in summer; while the one of black are reserved for the most serious occasions. I am seeking increased versatility, especially after dark, and am considering a pair in burgundy. However, I recall Manton writing a few years ago that burgundy tends to look artificial in calf because, unlike cordovan, calf does not take dye well in this color. Thank you for any thoughts on this matter.

[Concordia]

Burgundy can look monochromatic and fake, but don't rule out its darker cousin oxblood. It will have you half-convinced that it's black during the evening, but will hold up very well during the day against RAF blue suits or grey odd trousers.

Vass has some nice samples on their site. If EG doesn't offer that color, you could get burgundy and darken it down with brown and black. There was a discussion on Styleforum recently about maintenance, and the best advice was to alternate Saphir's mahogany and black (or the occasional navy blue).

[Byron]

These things may be true when the shoes are new, but with age and a good mix of burgundy and black polish, burgundy shoes can develop a very nice patina. I've had some EGs in burgundy antique and they've aged beautifully. If you're not set on EG you could check out C&J's Westfield in burgundy burnished calf. It's darker than EG's burgundy and may be a good addition, though I've no idea how these will age.

How about a dark blue or green? These may be a bit extravagant but when polished corretly shouldn't be dismissed as an alternative.

[hectorm]

I am seeking increased versatility, especially after dark, and am considering a pair in burgundy...Thank you for any thoughts on this matter

Dear Rodes,
I own two pairs of RTW John Lobb (calf, not cordovan) in different shades of burgundy. They use other fancy names for that color as claret and iris purple but they are burgundy. I wasn't looking for versatile shoes when I bought them; it was rather variety what I had in mind. As Concordia says, they look their best with grey flannels and bright blue suits, but outdoors and under sunlight they do look a bit artificial though. I have no plans for darkening them with brown or black polish; that would defeat the purpose for what I bought them. At night they look black, only a tad more interesting. They are way too new to have developed a natural patina yet, but John Lobb does a pretty good job on that matter from the start.
I hope this is helpful.
Cheers

[rodes]

Thank you gentleman for the thoughtful comments. Your remarks have given me another idea. How about taking one pair of dark oak, a color that I already have and like, and treating them to oxblood polish? Over time would this not yield a reddish tint that could be more interesting than all brown for night time use? I would wear these with an odd jacket where black shoes are seldom a good choice.

[hectorm]

How about taking one pair of dark oak, a color that I already have and like, and treating them to oxblood polish?

There's an idea. I think you could also mix some black polish.
I'm not very fond off dealing with shoe polish myself (although I recognize that's a gentlemanly thing to do), but I do have a pair of dark brown oxfords which are really dull and have not improved much with time. This thread has put me in the mood for letting my boot polisher experiment with some merlot polish on them.

[Frederic Leighton]

As a note on the side of this conversation - I tend to minimize the shoe-polish ability to contribute to the change of colour (patina). It seems to me that rain, sun and use are the main factors, as it happens to wood.

Significant amounts of non-neutral shoe polish could definitely introduce some change in shade, but most of the (spit)-shining process involves the use of neutral polish, which allows a shinier finish. Also, you don't really want a thick, evergrowing layer of shoe-polish on your shoes. When the most superficial layers cannot be persuaded to shine anymore and a deeper treatment is required, all layers are better if removed to prevent the formation of cracks and 'flakes' of dry polish and reach the leather with fresh, nourishing oils and waxes.

My four pairs of shoes in different shades of burgundy developed a nice patina without the help of shoe-polish. The patina is different on each pair, due to different leather and frequency of use. I really like when the contribution to a less plastic-like effect of the leather is given not by darker areas only, but by lighter spots (from abrasion of the most exposed areas) as well. This last kind of patina seems more natural to me, since it can hardly come by the use of any shoe-polish and suggests that those shoes are actually used rather than collected.. Some sort of sprezzatura, maybe.

[hectorm]

I tend to minimize the shoe-polish ability to contribute to the change of colour (patina). It seems to me that rain, sun and use are the main factors, as it happens to wood.

Dear Frederic,
The way you have expressed yourself in the sentence above made me wonder if it was possible that we had such a different point of view.
In my experience the use of shoe polish, far from minimal, is the critical factor in the building up of patina. Rain, sun and wear will only create abrasion even on the best of leathers. It´s the use of the polish that will change that wear and tarnish into good looking patina.
But, of course, as it happens with good wine that ages well, you have to start with a great pair of shoes to achieve that goal.

[Frederic Leighton]

Dear Hectorm,
Thank you for sharing your experience! I thought not many people would agree, since I always find mentioned the contribution of shoe polish to patina.. I guess my different opinion comes from my different use of shoe polish. I only use neutral shoe-polish because it works better with spit-polishing, as someone pointed out before I could even confirm. I use colours just in the very first two layers that come before the dozen of layers in neutral shade that is required to achieve a mirror finish. When this cannot be renewed by the simple use of a cloth or the addition of a very thin extra-layer on the top of the old ones, I clean out most of the old layers and start from fresh (this never happens before one year of intensive use). I do the same on calf, cordovan and even the only pair in peccary that I own (and peccary is the most difficult leather to work with, in my experience).

[rodes]

The idea seems to be working well thus far. I took one pair of dark oak oxfords, applied a light coat of brown, then "Red Mahogany" Meltonian shoe cream, then buffed. Exactly what I wanted, deep brown with a slightly reddish cast. It looks more natural than burgundy in sunlight and has more interest than all brown after dark.

[hectorm]

I use colours just in the very first two layers that come before the dozen of layers in neutral shade that is required to achieve a mirror finish. When this cannot be renewed by the simple use of a cloth or the addition of a very thin extra-layer on the top of the old ones, I clean out most of the old layers and start from fresh (this never happens before one year of intensive use).

Frederic,
I admire your patience and dedication.
If I polished my shoes that way then, to match, it follows that I would have to iron the crease on my trousers, and then, comb my hair, and then.... where would we end?

[Frederic Leighton]

Hahaha! Hectorm, since I closed my facebook account, the shine of my shoes has no equals

[hectorm]

Thank you for sharing your experience! I thought not many people would agree, since I always find mentioned the contribution of shoe polish to patina.. I guess my different opinion comes from my different use of shoe polish. I only use neutral shoe-polish.

And thank you, Frederic, for sharing yours.
Re-reading your older posts once more, now do I understand what you meant and the reason for such an apparent big difference in our experiments.
I also allow neutral cream/shoe polish on my brown/oxblood shoes but only when they have reached the desired point of patina/color. I would say that at that point I´m really afraid that my shoes could get any darker or change the hue even just a bit. It´s the point of subjective perfection by definition: when you would not want to change anything.

[VRaivio]

I rotate six pairs of Edward Green shoes for business. The three pair of dark oak get the most wear; the two of burnt pine get employed with suiting of lighter color, especially in summer; while the one of black are reserved for the most serious occasions. I am seeking increased versatility, especially after dark, and am considering a pair in burgundy. However, I recall Manton writing a few years ago that burgundy tends to look artificial in calf because, unlike cordovan, calf does not take dye well in this color. Thank you for any thoughts on this matter.

The trick is to go for oxblood, a red colour shade close to black. It will look almost black in the office or shade and pop in full sunlight. If the end result does not please, you can always spread a bit of black cream on this burgundy pair to make them darker still.

[Dr T]

i have a pair of burgandy Alfred Sargent shoes - when I purchased them I was advised to always polish them with black polish. I never did so but used oxblood - they still look good 7 years later.