Vol. I No. VIII (Oct 05') Fall / Winter Items -AA/Esky

[Will]

Etutee,

As long as you can find material that you care to share, you'll have very appreciative readers at The London Lounge.

This posting is wonderful as usual. I have a green tweed suit like the one pictured (fabric from North Highland Tweed) and I'm now inspired to wear it next month on a Saturday train from Boston to New York.

Best,

Will

[whittaker]

Believe me…if I had my way I would make every post about formal wear or about old rules and regulations…both of whom I like very much. But there would not be much use for those.

There may not be utility in such a post but you would have at least one fascinated reader.

After this post, it is sort of a review time for me… I need to see whether I should continue with these or not. I know some of you believe that these are useful but somehow I remain doubtful. If I think they are indeed useful… I certainly do not mind doing any work, not matter how tedious…as a matter of fact it is sheer joy. However, if such is not the case… then they are a waste and I thoroughly dislike waste in any form and probably won’t be continuing with them. No, that does not mean I won’t post at all but that this current form of posts will not continue.

In my own case I have pored over every word you've written several times and taken notes in my moleskine. This is invaluable reading, every bit as educational and enjoyable as Boyer or Flusser.

See the use of suit fabric, then the shirt and the tie combination and finally the socks. If this does not emphasize on the phrase “color harmony” then I don’t know what will.

The whole ensemble is perfect and has served to challenge my antipathy to grey shirts.

Before you going into complete astonishment and daze let me tell you that this is a town Ulster actually worn at a football stadium. Recommended best for people who switch between an office business and sporty setting on Saturday afternoons and thereby causing a conflict in attire, which is effectively resolved by what is presented above in the illustration

.

Not recommended for wearing to your normal British football stadium either. Amusing thought, though. Boy, have times changed.

Thank you, Etutee, for another highly illuminating post.

[kidkim2]

ETutee,

Your posts are tremendous--pure pleasure to the eye, and food for the forebrain as well.

I would greatly appreciate hearing more of your insights into the murky realm of pattern mixing. In particular, I'd like to know whether you adhere to Flusser's principle (which I suppose he derived from L. Fellows and the rest of the AA/Esquire artists): "same pattern, different sizes; different patterns, same size."

By encouraging the combination of patterns and providing a guideline that seems to work, Dressing the Man really changed my sartorial life. I had been taught never to mix patterns. (Doing so was thought to suggest the track--though what was wrong with racing remained a mystery.)

Grateful thanks for all you have done!

Mike

[couch]

Etutee,

What can I add to what's been said already, apart from my gratitude, enjoyment, and hope that you'll continue these posts?

Thanks,
Randall

[Etutee]

Dear Members,

Thank you all for your kind words…

I note you were uneasy about showing the black man serving beer in railroad car. I really don't see anything demeaning about showing any man engaged in honest employment. Is serving drinks to others essentially humiliating?

Oh…no..no. That is absolutely fine, nothing wrong with that one picture. What I meant to say was that… in these pictures you almost never see any minorities of any sort, as if they didn’t exist. However, whenever you do see a member of minority, he is always shown as “serving” the white men in one way or another. That was the notion what I was actually referring too. It is hard to see that from one picture but I have dozens of them where such a theme is depicted.
Hope it clarifies the writing.

I would greatly appreciate hearing more of your insights into the murky realm of pattern mixing. In particular, I'd like to know whether you adhere to Flusser's principle (which I suppose he derived from L. Fellows and the rest of the AA/Esquire artists): "same pattern, different sizes; different patterns, same size."

Dear kidkim,

A pleasure to see you here. I almost thought you vanished for good when you didn’t posted for a long while.

Um… about what you asked above… briefly speaking, the first part of that is a good rule and I usually have no problem with it. However, the 2nd portion is beyond my understanding… If it is indeed to be thought of as a rule then I break it often…actually I cannot even think when was the last time I followed it. What I mean is this… Take the very first picture with grey suit in it. In that picture the suit is striped, which is bold and a decent distance apart. Now look at the shirt, it is checked which is another pattern and is in micro small version. If this 2nd part of the above mentioned “rule” is to be applied here… the results would be unfortunate to say the least. If you make the suit’s stripe as small & narrow as the shirt’s check… it would ruin its beauty completely… & if you change the shirt’s check as large and bold as the stripe on the suit… the effect would be worse than horrible.

I hope you can see what I am referring to. Not only, do you have to think of the size but of the "intensity" or "visibility" or “strength” of the pattern. Two stripes can be of the same scale or size but dramatically different in visibility. For example think a stripe on woolen flannel and then the same on worsted. In addition to the size...if you alternate the "intensity" of the pattern you will be able to do Much more... Since you mentioned it...I will say this right now... You can also break the first part of this rule at anytime by alternating the strength of the pattern...yet keeping them same in size.

Indeed, there are variations and multiple levels of this… and more often than not, it is not that easy to make generalizations. It is rather unfortunate that such things never get mentioned in books these days…they are every bit as vital as anything.

Sincerely
etutee

[kidkim2]

etutee,

Thanks for your rapid and informative response. Certainly you are correct in opposing the slavish adherence to "rules." A timely reminder.

And the importance of intensity as a factor along with scale--which had escaped me--should not be overlooked.

Interestingly, I'd thought the red pinstripe outfit ("Week-end Wardrobe for Traveling Light") an example of Flusser's principle at work. While--as you point out--the original copy reads, "fine checked madras shirt," my close inspection of the shirting as illustrated by Fellows seemed to reveal a Glenurquhart-style over plaid of just about the right size. This is probably a case of (optical) wishful thinking on my part!

But if it were the case--that is, if the scale of the checks in the shirting were the same as the spacing of the dots in the tie and the width of the pinstripes--I persist in believing the effect would be strengthened.

Or have I imbibed a bit too much Flusser?

Mike

[citizenk]

Etutee,

Brilliant article!

I always immensely enjoy reading your posts. They display a remarkable degree of insight and analysis that very few can match. The descriptions and the (beautiful) pictures are always educational and every time I read one, I take away something that I can apply to my own efforts at attempting to look well put together.

You make this forum a better place!

Thanks so much, & please keep up the stellar work!

Regards,

John Kane

[Etutee]

Or have I imbibed a bit too much Flusser?

No…not at all. Flusser is usually more accurate than most about rules. Here in pattern mixing and matching he also believes the same thing…what I am saying but probably didn’t explained it in his book as you cannot possibly include everything.

Since you have Dressing the Man… let me use that as an example of what I was saying. Now on page 70 he says Keep the scales equal to harmonize two different patterns. and this is presented with two different illustrations from AA. Right?

Now on the next page… he cancels this with two shirt and tie examples saying in the top case two small patterns create discord he presents a shirt with narrow stripe & a tie with very small foulard motif to show this…

and then at bottom by comparison says A small pattern needs to be relieved by a larger one and here a micro small check on suit is balanced by a large paisley pattern on the tie.

See… this is what I was referring to that the 2nd portion of the rule “different patterns same size” does NOT always work and can be broken very easily. I will display the exact same thing Flusser described...except with larger patterns instead of smaller ones.

On page 77 you will see a beautiful autumn/ fall combination worn by Luciano Barbera. The jacket is large checked, smaller scale hound’s tooth tie and finally narrow striped shirt. Over here say if you were to make the hound’s pattern of the tie as large as the jacket… or even worse shirt stripes as wide as the jacket… it would create sort of a mismatch.

Now on page 65 see Duke’s picture with four patterns. If you were to match the stripe on the shirt with the width of the check on the suit (which is much larger) the effect would be really strange. Or on 226 where Duke is wearing a bold windowpane suit in navy. Here take that size of the check and apply it to the shirt…do you think it will work?

The purpose of all this is to show that more than often there are many levels to these rules and exceptions are to be found easily. I will say this also…part of the problem lies in matching the scale of jacket / suit with that of shirt. Two different patterns here of same size will often create a conflict, especially if their “strength” is the same. Doing the exact same with tie usually yields in no harm (jacket and tie). Yet shirt and tie again do not follow this well... as shown by Flusser on page 71.

All of this gets complex when you add “visibility” of pattern to it, which of course is directly in relation to the texture of the fabrics.

But if it were the case--that is, if the scale of the checks in the shirting were the same as the spacing of the dots in the tie and the width of the pinstripes--I persist in believing the effect would be strengthened.

Well... if you still feel this way… what can I say?

Sincerely
etutee

[manton]

This is your best post yet. To stop now would be a crime against the Lounge.

[BirdofSydney]

Monsieur,

I am impressed, as always. A few particular points intrigue me...

I usually never go to shops for various reasons, primarily being that firstly my town does not have anything worth looking and even when I am in a big city; no shop would ever carry anything in my size.

Do you take particularly large sizes, or small? I'm familiar to this plight, having as I do a 35" chest, 29" waist and size 40 feet. Some stores I find genuinely apologetic, others try their hardest to find something that can be altered to fit. Some are quite rude and contemptuous. I really ought to direct them to their own press photos and allow them to contemplate how many of their models have waists that size.

Nothing wrong with that…except that more and more young men or old ones for that matter are thinking along the lines of head-to-toe “outfits”, each for a special occasion.

Pure commercialism. Sales staff are taught to encourage the sale of a shirt and tie with every suit to boost the bottom line. The magazines push the same. People are foolish. I am most irritated when I remark to salesmen, attempting to stop short of calling their merchandise garish and shoddy, that their mauve and taupe Prince-of-Wales check is too bright for my wardrobe, only for them to have the nerve to try to push a chartreuse paisley tie on me as well!

I was surprised to find working button holes and shirt gussets on almost 30% of the shirts. Even the denim super casual jackets had working button holes…yes even the ones old at Gap.

Cheap and machine-stiched to convey a veneer of old-world class to the daft masses who've never seen a hand-sewn garment. I personally concur with Mr. Kabbaz in the opinion that gussets are more often than not used to mask poor construction anyway.

For example…I asked a young sales person why every pair of pants in the store was plain front…& what happened to pleated ones…to which he replied “Oh…those are grandpa pants and they make you look old”. “Flat fronts are for younger people and look cool”. Upon my further inquiry… I confirmed my doubt that the poor person had no idea what the function of the pleats was.

As I've noted elsewhere, I have scant use for pleats when I barely have hips to hang them on. I prefer a full-cut flat front along the lines of certain Italian makers. But, your horror is understandable, sir. Of late I've been told by a store's manager, a gentleman of many more years than myself, that there's nothing wrong with a keyhole lapel button hole, and that noone will notice in any case. Others have politely, and sometimes not, wondered aloud what a "canvas" is and how it relates to a jacket. To say nothing of those who remark upon the "Italian cloth" or "English make" of a particular garment as if that's an unquestionable measure of it's quality!

There are a number of points I'd like to address in the article, and in your learned dissertation thereupon, but I shall save that for a separate post tomorrow evening.

Best regards from your friendly curmudgeon,

Eden

[S.Maran]

Dear etutee:

Sorry to be late in posting to endorse the views of those aleady expressed. Something very significant would be lost from the forum if you decide to cease to post. I am sure everyone hugely appreciates the effort and time which is invested in them. They are not only educational but inspirational. They remind us of the diminution of style and elegance in, and the timidity of modern dressing.

[alden]

Etutee’s latest essay on Fall is a truly splendid contribution and hits the target on a good many subjects.

The thing that’s makes Etutee’s post effective is the blend of theory with the practical. He makes his points very clear with the aid of the illustrations. Many writers on the subject of dressing are content with theory and the results are often a bit academic. Etutee’s approach is more spontaneous and personal. He reveals a good deal about his personal taste and encourages others to define their own preferences through practice and observation. All in all, these posts are required reading for guests of the bespoke learning center of thelondonlounge.net. I certainly enjoy them and encourage their author to keep up the good work.

Fall is a season that challenges many to try their hand at dressing patterns. The secret to doing so well is to understand the three harmonies: color, texture and pattern. The description of these fundamentals and the accompanying illustrations are worth a thousand rules for the simple reason that at the end of the day it’s the eye that is the final arbiter.

Experimenting with different combinations of color, texture and pattern trains the eye. I suppose the “like patterns, same size” kind of advice is helpful for some people. But these tips can wind up being more confusing than truly helpful. If they are, don’t be discouraged. It’s perfectly feasible to follow suggestions like Flusser’s perfectly and create an extremely unpleasant image just like it is possible to disregard them completely and wind up with a stunning one.

As Etutee has explained, work from the shirt/tie combination outwards. From the shirt/tie combination bring the socks and pochette into play and finish with the jacket and trouser. Is the resulting image harmonious? Do the colors, textures and patterns meld together in such a way that no single element overpowers another or the whole? You’ve found an elegant combination to wear. Now you can imagine variations on the theme of the combination you found. Keep things as simple as possible. And don’t forget your hat, please.

Etutee’s exhortation to use more color in shirts is a good piece of advice. If you find your dress lacks punch, take a look at your selection of shirts. Pink is a staple Etutee so even if it happens to be fashionable, I’ll just have to keep wearing them.

Etutee’s comments on the first illustration are excellent and the suit in question makes me think about a fabric H Lesser had a few years back made of a 16 ozs. tightly woven worsted grey with a rich burgundy stripe. It was heady stuff and it escaped from my wardrobe for lack of a few centimeters of cloth. What a pity.

The second illustration shows a truly impressive suit albeit, as Mr. Logsdail would say, with a wounded lapel. If the readers would like to have an image of how to dress well, then this brown cheviot suit is not a bad place to start.

The coat length is perfect. I happened to see a 1936 film with Gary Cooper recently and I remarked that his suits were all cut this length. A long coat looks too much like a cloak. A jacket cut the proper length looks dynamic as in this illustration. The cutaway front and correct buttoning point complete the perfectly balanced picture. One might like to see the notch placed higher on the chest, but the armholes are cut high and shaped as should be. A bit of extension on the shoulders and a bit more padding than what a natural shoulder man would want but still perfectly acceptable. The trousers are cut full and have zero break. Put that blueprint to work with your tailor and you will not be disappointed. The Homburg is a must.

The color combinations on #3 are excellent but stay away from this pattern if you are over 6 ft. unless it is a very subdued and faint check. That many small checks on a long suit will give you the picture quality of an out of tune 1950s television set without antenna. Choose the larger check in illustration #4.

In illustration #5 all the rules are broken very nicely. Tweed DB suits, especially herringbones, are verboten according to all the Hoyles of dressing combined. Windsor wore tweed DBs (shocking) and the illustration doesn’t look to bad. I may have to think about this one.

The introduction to wearing a DB correctly, with a wonderful picture of Mr. Webb, is much appreciated. One can have a lot of fun with the lining of a DB coat for the simple reason that no one should ever see it. It is possible to sit down in a DB when the buttoning point of the jacket is correctly placed. Too many DB jackets are cut too low and when one sits this can create unpleasant results. Button at the bottom of the ribcage, the DB will move with the wearer in all movements.

End Part 1

[kidkim2]

Etutee,

I am (almost!) speechless with gratuiude for the attention you have lavished on my pattern mixing query. Much food for thought here.

Michael's remarks embolden me to articulate what many must have felt while absorbing your magnificent lessons: These posts should be gathered into book form. Not to do so--and thus to deprive others of the advantages enjoyed by us LLers--would be a sin.

I would consider it a privilege to assist you with the proofreading.



[/i]

[Thomas I. Kim]

.

[Cufflink79]

Dear Mr. Etutee:
Thank you for all your hard work in these really neat post. In college I had to present a power point presentation for my computer class (I did it on Cuff Links of course). I used the scanner quite a bit, and know how much work can go into one of these things.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79