The Style Quotient

[alden]

With the trouser leg being that short, yet full cut, how would this look when the gentleman is walking?

Beautiful. Like the trousers cut in the glorious years. Take a look at the AA illustrations and that is what you will see.

Flapping around happens when the trousers are too long.

Cheers

[davidhuh]

With the trouser leg being that short, yet full cut, how would this look when the gentleman is walking? Presumably a lot of "flapping" around the ankles?

BB

Dear BB,

not at all. This is how I have my trousers cut.

cheers, david

[couch]

Nicely captured, Uppercase. One small quibble that does not affect your analysis, in my view: there is in fact a dimple in the tie, visible (at the viewer's left) upon magnifying the image. But it's not fussy, not perfectly symmetrical--just the way a tie of a certain width pulls up if the cloth or lining isn't heavy and the wearer is not studiously preventing a crease or dimple.

Dimples in silk ties are the descendents of creases in neckcloths and cravates; they help the knot stay taut and reflect the natural behavior of the silk when compressed. Prince Charles, The Duke of Windsor, Astaire, Grant, and Agnelli, for instance, were all usually photographed with dimples in their ties unless those were of thick wool or of the skinny variety fashionable during the late 50s and early 60s.

I've noticed a recent trend to fixate disapprovingly on this detail (not by you, UC) that seems silly. When (as is increasingly common) I see a substantial silk tie knotted loosely with an ostentatiously smooth and dimple-free blade, my first impulse is to think, "that fellow is afraid of setting a crease in his tie," not "what a dashing and degagé style that fellow has."

I think Hardy Amies's epigram applies here: choose the clothes with intelligence, put them on with care, and then forget all about them. Some ties look well without dimples, more look better with; in either case the effect should appear natural and suit the collar configurations of the shirt and jacket without calling undue attention to the area below the knot. All things that the tenth Duke embodies admirably.

[uppercase]

Sexton:
There is style and style. And style. That is to say, a lot
of styles.

And I am sure that the more we engage with each other in this thread
that we will find what we like and what we don't. And why.

It's not really objective is it? We will disagree.
And it's not a matter of clothes of course though clothes contribute.

Clothes are not the story line; they only add or detract from the narrative
of the substance of a man.

Is Sexton stylish? I'd have to say yes.
But it's not a stylishness which I particularly appreciate.
Why?
Well, I think that he is too bright and shiny and glows.

His dinner jacket may be beautiful. And his skin care immaculate. But his style is too forward for me.

SQ: 6/10

[NJS]

Couch - you have exactly put into words my feeling about tie-dimple avoidance: I find it impossible to knot a tie without a dimple and I infer from this that (unless the tie is very heavy or has a thick interlining) the absence of the dimple is often deliberate and, if the tie is loosely-knotted as well, it all looks too neat and possibly (as you hint), economical too.

Brummell's greatest claim to fame was the time he took making his knots look as though they had been tied in trice whilst he was in an agreeable state of vacancy. Moreover, I think that dimples in ties have the same charm as dimples in pretty faces.

U-C I also agree with your assessment of Sexton - it's the 'forward' style of the celebrity - and the excessive neatness that I mentioned before is well illustrated in the contrast with the Duke of Beaufort, who surely deserves, for the lesson in the relative importance of clothes (and especially new clothes) a 10++ (and I suggest that the scoring might be better out of 100, if not 140).

Of course, this would not go down well with those for whom the hunt is confined to the next new garment.
NJS

[uppercase]

A further photo of the 10th Duke of Beaufort.
Probably taken at the same time as the black/white photo above.
This, in color, is even more interesting....

[NJS]

Those of us who are now middle-aged will remember the generation born between 1890 and 1925 and they more or less all dressed like this and many of them also had the same kind of assurance, probably borne out of their experiences (rather than social assurance): the older ones would have served in WWI and the younger ones in WWII. A family friend who was a Spitfire pilot in WWII (he never ever spoke about it, except to say that we was trained in Canada), has just died in his ninetieth year. He always appeared in public dressed like the 10th Duke of Beaufort (actually, probably better) but he also cultivated the most magnificent collection of roses (even under glass for the winter), of every known colour, including streaked colours, and every single day, except at Remembrance time, he wore a rosebud in his buttonhole, which complimented his tie: no fuss about it; no fidgeting. Every bud was exactly à point; just opening. This was him. It was what you expected. It was what you got. Gradually these men are dying out and we are left wondering why men do not dress well as a rule anymore It is simply because we live in the age of the slob and we all buy in to it to some extent. I am a slob right now. We buy in because it is easy. Those men didn't buy in to 'easy', anymore than they would know what 'buying in to easy' means. If they heard such drivel they would tell us to take our hands out of our pockets and say what we mean! Their women dressed too: in skirt suits or dresses, with hats, pins, gloves, overcoats, scarves, and lots of pale powder and handkerchiefs always at the ready: they are vanishing too. The world has probably changed more, in certain respects for the better and in certain respects for the worse, in the last fifty years than it has in the last five hundred and it is, perhaps, understandable that we are dazed by it all. As a general rule, it is very unlikely that people at large, in the western nations, will ever dress very well again in their everyday lives. Sneakers, trackies, trainers and jumpers are the order of the day.

Curiously, in the middle and far east many people are still dressing as they have for centuries and this is, maybe, an example of how secure their civilizations are in themselves in comparison with our more recent western civilization.
NJS

[Costi]

Style must have its martyrs, UC...

[Costi]

Fred Astaire:



The hip pocket seemed to be slanted downward.

That's a horizontal dart cut along the pocket mouth, to help the quarters follow the rounded shape of the body and keep the skirt from flaring out.

[rodes]

The men named above often wore the double breasted coat. To these we can add the usual Cary Grant,Clark Gable,Prince Charles,Matteo Marzotto,Douglas Fairbanks Jr. to name but a few, as well as countless members of the London Lounge.When employed in the right way this coat raises the magnitude of all three of the components of the quotient.

[NJS]

I just came across this. One singer (never even heard of him before and a crackly, old recording, at that); hardly doing anything at all; with a simple piano arrangement- but lifting the roof; the audience taking over, in a spirit of recognition of something, at the Royal Albert Hall. Quite magical, I think:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H6bFPFe2XiU

Who could do that now? The fact that it is one of the loveliest of 'pop' songs, admired by Elgar (chrematistically shanghai'd by the producers of Downton Abbey), is quite beside the point.

NJS

[T.K.]

This seems like fun. I did not succeed in finding a picture of a present day personality that was not too obvious. So here is Alberto Giacometti captured by Richard Avedon. What I see is a man who wears stylish clothes because he needs the protection and comfort they give first. Only in a second instance is he concerned with the particularities of his clothing and with the way he appears in them publicly. I like to think this attitude is the reason why he comes across confident and with a certain amount of nonchalance. What I see through the dirtied trousers and rumpled jacket is someone with something on his mind; and that ‘something’ is surely not his appearing before a camera.

Many of the basics of casual dress are present. The tweed jacket is loosely cut and soft due to its construction and material, but also because of the demanding physical labor it has supported (I am not even sure whether this coat can be buttoned at all). The trousers are in an according full cut and sit high on the waist. The cloth appears to be cotton, which could be held to be not completely right. The pullover adds some pattern to the outfit and creates a frame for the shirt and tie. The shirt collar is cut low, not pressuring the throat, with the right amount of space for the tie’s askew knot. In hand a handkerchief or possibly bandana, or maybe simply a rag for some purpose other than dress. But carried as part of it all.



It seems to me that this display might be more important to us today than any picture of any well dressed man in a suit ready for business, for politics, for blogging. Dressing up is easier to get away with nowadays when you are wearing a suit and not casual clothing. In most cases a suit will immediately make you part of the group of suit wearing professionals, whilst the casual outfit consisting of a dress shirt with a classic cut jacket and proper cut trousers, worn with a tie, will set you apart further from the jeans and polyester wearing crowds of today than a suit does, because somehow you will remain part of that crowd.

More important and maybe the most valuable lesson to be learned here is a more fearless way of dressing, i.e. of dressing up without being overly cautious for wear and tear, creases, correctness, originality, etc. Maybe this is not the hailed studied carelessness you read about often, in fact something closer to an unstudied carelessness, yet something I wish I had and saw more.

SQ: 8/10

[uppercase]

Very nicely put and interpreted, TK!

[hectorm]

So here is Alberto Giacometti captured by Richard Avedon.

T.K.
I liked your post, but unfortunately the picture seems to have vanished from the thread

Update: thank you for fixing back the picture.
Update: Oh, no. The picture is gone again.

[Costi]

I also like what you see, T.K.