Following members' advice ...

[marburyvmadison]

Will play the wandering listener Alden. Thank you for the tip. Am anticipating my sartorial pilgrimage, and cultural shock.

David, I might bring this batch of shirts back to the shirt-makers and have them look into having them tightened, or see what is to be done. You're quite right that I should not have had so many made up at one-go. T'was a costly mistake.

Concordia -- Nice one. Yes. This is unlined, uncanvassed and meant to be rolled-up and put away into a suitcase. No, it's going to feature reversible buttons -- This will be a blazer with gold buttons and horn on the other side.

Frank: Nit-picking is good. I sincerely appreciate your comments and pointers. Very insightful. Sometimes, I still find it simply amazing how 3/8 of an inch or 0.5 cm can make such a huge difference on a coat. I dare not try to recollect what I must have been like prior to my present pursuit

Can't help but wonder if when you're walking down the streets, you're mentally calculating if the sleeves of the person who passed you should be re-pitched, or a little more wadding added to the right shoulder of the guy who crossed your path on the right. And yes, the coat will be lengthened.

[hectorm]

And yes, the coat will be lengthened.

The power of the LL in action. And for a good cause.

[bond_and_beyond]

MVM,

I have nothing to add with regard to the coat, I think it all has been said by those much more knowledgable than me.

With regard to the shirt I was wondering if you did not get a test shirt first, or whether they made them all up at once?

When I started my bespoke shirt adventure with Turnbull and Asser it took them five shirts and two years to get it right. In the end I was happy with it as that permitted me to experiment with different shirt collars, until deciding upon the one that I have on all my bespoke shirts today. I find that the challenge with bespoke is that, apart from getting the fit right, it is knowing what one wants. I am constantly changing my mind, which, with bespoke, can be an expensive excercise

BB

[culverwood]

Would not the tailor have been saying to himself the same things as old henry and had his chalk out to make the corrections he thought necessary after a first fitting.

This is where the need of the Facebook generation to show all invites criticism which is perhaps unnecessary given that a tailor is almost never going to get things 100% right first time.

[marburyvmadison]

BB, at the fittings, the shirt collar seemed snug enough and when I pointed out that it was a tiny bit loose, I was advised that I should allow for minimal shrinkage. I left it at that since they're the experts and it seemed logical. When I took possession of the shirts, the collars are as you see (Please note that I'm observing how poorly the collars fit with the benefit of hindsight. I did not know, at that time, how a collar ought to 'fit' since I don't believe much has been said on how snug a shirt collar ought to fit). The shirt collars I received were looser. The shoulders and other parts are fine because I devoted a great deal of attention to shoulders etc at the fitting. I did one shirt and then the rest all together, especially since I did not travel with a great many number of shirts since I had decided to get them made up in London.

Culverwood, it is possible that the tailor said the very same things Old Henry did. But what has this got to do with the Facebook generation? I prefer to think that, with the advent of technology, people (regardless of whether or not they belong to the FB generation) keep abreast with the times, and utilize the means they have to communicate their passion and interests. I think that you might have approached this photograph with certain misconceived notions. I find passion in learning how a suit should fit, the technical reasons, what should be changed, and why. It is in a forum like this, with pictures to boot, that one learns through identifying shortfalls, and various aspects of fit. I have gained a tremendous lot from this forum, and the posters who have risked dignity by putting up photos, and posters like Old Henry who have been liberal with criticisms.

Words can be of great help, but like they say, 'a picture is a thousand words'.

To be frank, I also don't see what's wrong with contructive criticism -- it's been highlighted that this is the first fitting, a favorable one at that, and the tailor's name has been blanked out. It might be a personal ethos but I've always welcomed criticism, being that I'm not deceived into complacency, and am challenged to scale greater heights. In a similar vein, I tend to liberally dispense my views (whether or not they are agreed).

[old henry]

Culverwood has made a great point and I like very much that he considers and respects the tailors pride and feelings.
I respect Culverwood for his take on this. His thinking is old thinking. There are old world customers as well as old world tailors. If I made a first fitting so accurately I would be very happy. Perhaps I should maybe keep any critiques in PMs.

[marburyvmadison]

I must submit that I'm rather pleased with the fitting, and I posted it to share the joys of fine tailoring, and for learning a little more about fit, rather than in my expectation that it fit 100% perfectly in the first fitting . I'm honestly pleased with how this project has progressed thus far. The tailor and his team are very forthcoming with answers to my queries too, and that's to be commended.

I don't know what's to be done -- either constructive comments be posted via PM (and people might not get to learn as much), or they're shared, and though people learn, the tailor's feelings might be hurt. There must be a balance But perhaps you're right, Old Henry, that a tailor's pride might be hurt! Good lesson -- to consider someone's feelings.

Which is why I deliberately left the tailor's name blank. I also didn't try to micromanage the fit, only told him that I'd like it longer. I'm confident he's well-skilled to deal with the issues Old Frank brought up, so I left it at that.

[bond_and_beyond]

Given the exchange on the thread "reasonably priced soft tailored suit" (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=10916&start=105) I find the last two posts rather amusing

BB

[marburyvmadison]

BB, tbh, my responses in that thread was directed at your comments about me generalizing from one suit, and as I've highlighted repeatedly in that thread, it's unfortunate that GB had to be used to illustrate my points. You claim that you're asking people not to generalize from a few accounts of a poorly-fitting suit, whilst I've indicated that I think that one should not generalize that all suits will fit as well as they did on Simon (as has been the experience of two of my friends) since he is the one most often used as a benchmark for GB's suits. This will be particularly true for those commissioning suits for the first time. They can do good work, as can be seen on Simon's suit (and echoed by others) and I never once disagreed that they can do so.

I'd like to point out that, unlike many others, I don't think I made the mistake of 'over-generalization'. The extent of my opinion is cabined by what I've been observing, but perhaps, you'd like to revisit the thread to see my first post:

Don't think Browne is that good. They seem to cut from a house block (not that that in itself is a problem if the coats are well fitted) and from what I've been seeing, the fit is terrible.

Mind you, the picture on that GB thread is a finished product, no less. This, on the other hand, is a baste, and at the first fitting.

And with regards to criticisms, even on this thread, I've pointed out that I enjoy criticism and dispense it freely. I also do so with great objectivity and without bias, sometimes at the expense of one's feelings. Be that as it may, I never said that I don't criticize, only that perhaps, it is a good lesson to be mindful of another's feelings. And even then, who should be mindful of the feelings of the poor chap and my two friends who didn't have well fitting suits?

I think you read my comments very selectively. I would urge you to read everything I write, and not merely filter out bits that confirm your perceptions. Context is always key.

But I digress.

[old henry]

The suit on the other post is an example of a mediocre tailor taking advantage of a novice unsuspecting customer and sending him out the door looking the way he does. I do not see much pride or knowledge of craft in this work. Question... Is it interesting for LL members to know technically what is wrong with a fit ? An Old Tailor with a keen eye could certainly critique any suit of mine and find many flaws. When I look at ANY suit of mine on the LL I cringe At things.. But not like the Sway Back Fella. The MvMs suit, like I have said, is very nice indeed. But as I have mentioned.. perhaps I should take my critiques to PMS.. And only If asked for. ..Bond, I respect your opinion. Do you think I am being square here ?

[bond_and_beyond]

BB, tbh, my responses in that thread was directed at your comments about me generalizing from one suit, and as I've highlighted repeatedly in that thread, it's unfortunate that GB had to be used to illustrate my points. You claim that you're asking people not to generalize from a few accounts of a poorly-fitting suit, whilst I've indicated that I think that one should not generalize that all suits will fit as well as they did on Simon (as has been the experience of two of my friends) since he is the one most often used as a benchmark for GB's suits. This will be particularly true for those commissioning suits for the first time.

Mind you, the picture on that GB thread is a finished product, no less. This, on the other hand, is a baste, and at the first fitting.

And with regards to criticisms, even on this thread, I've pointed out that I enjoy criticism and dispense it freely. I also do so with great objectivity and without bias, sometimes at the expense of one's feelings. Be that as it may, I never said that I don't criticize, only that perhaps, it is a good lesson to be mindful of another's feelings. And even then, who should be mindful of the feelings of the poor chap and my two friends who didn't have well fitting suits?

I think you read my comments very selectively. I would urge you to read everything I write, and not merely filter out bits that confirm your perceptions. Context is always key.

I was just making a "sly" observation, did not intend to re-start the discussion in this thread. My last post was more about "tailors' feelings", which did not seem to be taken into account at all in the aforementioned thread (nor should they in my opinion, but fairness is important).

For the record then I completely agree with you that constructive criticism should be welcomed, indeed it is part of the purpose of this forum (or so I thought). I also salute your posting of a photo of you at the first fitting, as the comments the other, knowledgable loungers dispense are valuable advice to all of us!

BB

[bond_and_beyond]

The suit on the other post is an example of a mediocre tailor taking advantage of a novice unsuspecting customer and sending him out the door looking the way he does. I do not see much pride or knowledge of craft in this work. Question... Is it interesting for LL members to know technically what is wrong with a fit ? An Old Tailor with a keen eye could certainly critique any suit of mine and find many flaws. When I look at ANY suit of mine on the LL I cringe At things.. But not like the Sway Back Fella. The MvMs suit, like I have said, is very nice indeed. But as I have mentioned.. perhaps I should take my critiques to PMS.. And only If asked for. ..Bond, I respect your opinion. Do you think I am being square here ?

Not at all Frank, I think you should post your advice/comments in the forum as I think all of us appreciate the advice you, as an experienced tailor, dispense. It is such advice that is the reason I frequent this very forum So don't hold back!

But given that I have had some dealings with the tailor mentioned above I cannot agree that he is "an example of a mediocre tailor taking advantage of a novice". But I do agree that the sway back suit should never have left the shop!

BB

[marburyvmadison]

All right. Fair point. Let's end this here.

I'll update with pictures come the second fitting, and after receiving the final product. Then, one can judge for one's self as to the quality of the suit, and how it fits.

[couch]

One and a half inches height at the back collar on the shirt strikes me as unusually low. Most RTW shirts I've seen/owned in the States are one and five-eighths at a 15" or 15.5" collar circumference. I prefer mine at one and three-fourths back height and my jackets are cut to leave about one-half inch of shirt visible at the back collar. I think it's not a good plan to judge exposed shirt collar by fraction of the shirt's collar height. Better, I think, to find a shirt collar height that suits you and have the jacket cut to sit well and show a half to three-quarters of an inch of shirt. If your tailor has covered more of the shirt it may be his discreet way of implying that a low shirt should not compromise the cut of the jacket.

[Concordia]

All right. Fair point. Let's end this here.

I'll update with pictures come the second fitting, and after receiving the final product. Then, one can judge for one's self as to the quality of the suit, and how it fits.

You've got a very fine tailor here-- so as good as the first draft was, the next should be even better.