reasonably priced soft tailored suit

[marburyvmadison]

I think you're misrepresenting what I mean with your statements about 'what I (allegedly) argued', but I'll let that rest, especially since we are indeed going in circles.

[old henry]

[quote] The photo of the poor guy on the other forum is the sway back... and you are right.... There is no excuse for letting that suit get even one tenth to where it ended. It has, however, nothing to do with the customer knowing what he wants. Good fit and proper "cutting" regardless of "what the customer wants" is what you trust your tailor to know. Basic fundamentals.. Shame on them and good for you Marbury for saying it. Knowing "what one wants" is neither here nor there. A good fit is the tailors responsibility.It is why he gets up in the morning and why you the customer should go to bed at night, rest assured.. I would be more than happy to send them the sway back manipulation. There is no magic. Quite simple actually. It can be found in any old tailor book[/quote]

What do you mean by "Tell the cutter what you want" I am missing something. Do you mean to tell him that you want a slight drape or soft shoulder and chest or rope shoulders??? "Style Stuff" OR ..Do you mean that you go with him as he cuts your paper pattern and tell him " see, I have a sway back. See how I stand like an "S" and the front is short and the back is long and the back of the pant hits my calves and the seat gathers. And my arms are set way back ??? So, you tell him.. you have to open the coat front at the waist line about 3/4 inch like this and close the back like this and most likely drop the chest a bit and lower the sleeve notch so as to set the sleeves back.. and raise the pant front and flatten the seat so as to readjust the balance and lift the cloth off of the calves and let the front crease hang correctly. And lets perhaps do a muslin fitting to test the pattern before we cut because we will only have to test once for all of the many many years that I will be your customer.

[bond_and_beyond]

I think you're misrepresenting what I mean about 'what I argued', but I'll let that rest, especially since we are indeed going in circles.

That is fine, and I appreciate the spirited discussion! It is quite fun on an otherwise lazy Sunday afternoon

But just out of interest, what would you advise a friend to do if he had under GBP 1500 (incl VAT and extra trouses) to spend on a suit? Are there other, better value tailors in London for that price than GB? I am honestly interested in the answer, as I am not "married" to one tailor, just looking for the best value

BB

[bond_and_beyond]

The photo of the poor guy on the other forum is the sway back... and you are right.... There is no excuse for letting that suit get even one tenth to where it ended. It has, however, nothing to do with the customer knowing what he wants. Good fit and proper "cutting" regardless of "what the customer wants" is what you trust your tailor to know. Basic fundamentals.. Shame on them and good for you Marbury for saying it. Knowing "what one wants" is neither here nor there. A good fit is the tailors responsibility.It is why he gets up in the morning and why you the customer should go to bed at night, rest assured.. I would be more than happy to send them the sway back manipulation. There is no magic. Quite simple actually. It can be found in any old tailoring book worth its salt.

........................................................................................................................................

What do you mean by "Tell the cutter what you want" I am missing something. Do you mean to tell him that you want a slight drape or soft shoulder and chest or rope shoulders??? "Style Stuff" OR ..Do you mean that you go with him as he cuts your paper pattern and tell him " see, I have a sway back. See how I stand like an "S" and the front is short and the back is long and the back of the pant hits my calves and the seat gathers. And my arms are set way back ??? So, you tell him.. you have to open the coat front at the waist line about 3/4 inch like this and close the back like this and most likely drop the chest a bit and lower the sleeve notch so as to set the sleeves back.. and raise the pant front and flatten the seat so as to readjust the balance and lift the cloth off of the calves and let the front crease hang correctly. And lets perhaps do a muslin fitting to test the pattern before we cut because we will only have to test once for all of the many many years that I will be your customer.

Frank,

I think you are completely right that the general fit of the suit is the tailor's responsibility, regardless of the customer's experience.

What I think this discussion has been more about is if that one StyleForum suit is in any way representative of Graham Browne's work. I do not think so.

BB

[alden]

Bond

On the one hand you want to use as evidence advertising from a blog in favor of Mr Browne but discount contrary not paid for criticism from another? In my opinion both of these fountains of info are useless.

Your most serious argument would be to say you are a satisfied customer. Period.

Cheers

[old henry]

Fitting that Gent is no easy task for any tailor.
I would charge him to make his pattern.
I would get out all of my old books and whittle away.
He would have to live in my shop.
It would take much trial and thought just to get the paper down.
But then we would have it forever.
But I would love it. LOL..Hi Michael.

[bond_and_beyond]

On the one hand you want to use as evidence advertising from a blog in favor of Mr Browne but discount contrary not paid for criticism from another? In my opinion both of these fountains of info are useless.

Alden,

That is the precise opposite of what I have done. I have quoted two other posters on this very thread, along with several threads on StyleForum (which, mind you, was where the suit we have been discussing as horrid was originally posted on) which (1) display photos of fairly good fitting suits, and (2) contain posts from happy customers. In addition I quoted my own experience with 4 suits, and 2 overcoats. Referring to Simon Crompton's blog was just an additional, supporting argument.

As such I am not discounting any evidence, I am just saying that the body of evidence, in my view, shows that one should expect to get a well fitting suit from Graham Browne, and given their price point, they are good value.

BB

[alden]

What do you mean by "Tell the cutter what you want" I am missing something. Do you mean to tell him that you want a slight drape or soft shoulder and chest or rope shoulders??? "Style Stuff" OR ..Do you mean that you go with him as he cuts your paper pattern and tell him " see, I have a sway back. See how I stand like an "S" and the front is short and the back is long and the back of the pant hits my calves and the seat gathers. And my arms are set way back ??? So, you tell him.. you have to open the coat front at the waist line about 3/4 inch like this and close the back like this and most likely drop the chest a bit and lower the sleeve notch so as to set the sleeves back.. and raise the pant front and flatten the seat so as to readjust the balance and lift the cloth off of the calves and let the front crease hang correctly. And lets perhaps do a muslin fitting to test the pattern before we cut because we will only have to test once for all of the many many years that I will be your customer.

Tell it like it is Frank.

These last posts should be required reading in Bepseaking 101.

Cheers

[alden]

Bond



Your best argument is your own experience. It is valid and is taken seriously.

Paid for adverts or hearsay from forums where adverts are also rife is less convincing.

Cheers

[old henry]

We are having a pleasant Sunday morning discussion here. But the GB flyer photos are on normally built clothes models and fit very "quick". These models can put on anything. And the photo of the "real" customer is what happens in "real life". The customers suit is not good.

[bond_and_beyond]

We are having a pleasant Sunday morning discussion here. But the GB flyer photos are on normally built clothes models and fit very "quick". These models can put on anything. And the photo of the "real" customer is what happens in "real life".

But Frank, there have been several posts on this thread with links to photos showing "real people" in Graham Browne suits (other than the skinny guy). Do you think they also look bad?

Thanks,
BB

[alden]

We are having a pleasant Sunday morning discussion here. But the GB flyer photos are on normally built clothes models and fit very "quick". These models can put on anything. And the photo of the "real" customer is what happens in "real life".

Absolutely great point and very true.

If one can wear RTW and have no fit issues, one can get a reasonable fit from alot of sources. But if one has a minimum of fit issues, make sure and go to a real tailor. Know yourself and buy accordingly. Forget the ads on blogs or forums. Know yourself.

Cheers

[old henry]

No..I dont need to.

[bond_and_beyond]

Bond



Your best argument is your own experience. It is valid and is taken seriously.

Paid for adverts or hearsay from forums where adverts are also rife is less convincing.

Cheers

Alden,

I agree with you, though I doubt the posts of "real people" I linked to on StyleForum are in any way adverts. Furthermore, though Simon Crompton's blog has gotten gradually more commercial, I think it a bit unfair to just stamp his blog posts as invalid advertisement. I have been following his blog for years and he can indeed be critical with many of the "products" he "tests". Mind you also the Graham Browne bespoke blog posts were made before he had a big, established readership and was considered a "hot" style blogger. I would be more sceptical to the blog post on the Anderson and Sheppard suit he got for free.

BB

[marburyvmadison]

If we are talking solely about London, I do believe that there are better value tailors that are superior to GB. But I'll save that for another topic, with pictures. Some seasoned forum posters use (used) them already. Still, why constrain one's self to London?

And BB, two of my friends (not that Styleforum poster) were attracted to GB precisely because of Crompton's post and the outcome, to me, was terrible. This is what I've seen from two people whom I personally know (and yes, they don't have knowledge of coats). And I'm not using some insurmountable yardstick here. Hence, seeing this post about Browne and on the other forum, jolted me and made me decide to add my 2 pennies worth, to caution the OP and prospective customer.

On a side note, vis-a-vis that comment you made about the chap who bespoke a grey DB at GB; he has, to my knowledge, significant theoretical knowledge on garment making, so though it might be his maiden foray into bespeaking a coat, he isn't really the archetypal novice.