Poignant moment in Budd

[oldfruit1]

njs, you say that money is now made more & more from 'endevour' rather than birth & you infer this is a positive thing. i would respond by saying that just because you make a lot of money in the system that has been created in the last 100 years or so doesnt mean that you are doing anything of any significance or value to society, merely that the society we live has decided to richly reward you for your activity. let me give you a example, i work in the city & have a colleague who i would estimate has a sub 100 iq, but is good at getting fund managers drunk & laid using a variety of hookers. he makes a lot of commission from trades he does for them & as a result banks over £1m+ bonus each year (even in these dire times in the market). do you think that his 'endevour' is anymore useful than the idiot son of a land owning toff whose family has collected ground rent for the last 300 years? if anything there is a net loss to society as those fund managers should be diligently investing your pension fund cash in the most efficient instead of paying exhorbitant commissions in exchange for getting laid (note this next time you figure out you need to work another 5 years as your pension fund has gone nowhere!).

i understand what you mean by 'destructive envy' amongst the ignorant and illiterate, however what if you look around and see a society where rewards are distributed unfairly and there are huge distortions in the system (for example exponential growth in global property price through loose central bank policy in the uk .. which means if you bought rather than rented a 4 bed house in london using a morgage a couple of decades ago you are now a millionare)? shouldnt the people try & change a flawed system for the better?

fruity

[cathach]

njs, you say that money is now made more & more from 'endevour' rather than birth & you infer this is a positive thing. i would respond by saying that just because you make a lot of money in the system that has been created in the last 100 years or so doesnt mean that you are doing anything of any significance or value to society, merely that the society we live has decided to richly reward you for your activity. let me give you a example, i work in the city & have a colleague who i would estimate has a sub 100 iq, but is good at getting fund managers drunk & laid using a variety of hookers. he makes a lot of commission from trades he does for them & as a result banks over £1m+ bonus each year (even in these dire times in the market). do you think that his 'endeavour' is anymore useful than the idiot son of a land owning toff whose family has collected ground rent for the last 300 years?

fruity,

I don't suppose they're hiring are they? As penance for such a position I would in return spend every ill-gotten penny on beauty.

i understand what you mean by 'destructive envy' amongst the ignorant and illiterate, however what if you look around and see a society where rewards are distributed unfairly and there are huge distortions in the system (for example exponential growth in global property price through loose central bank policy in the uk .. which means if you bought rather than rented a 4 bed house in london using a morgage a couple of decades ago you are now a millionare)? shouldnt the people try & change a flawed system for the better?
fruity

I'll agree with you again there, when will the people awake from their blindness? Écrasez l'Infâme!

[Berwick]

I do hope we are not implying that socialism is the preserve of the ignorant and illiterate, or that destructive envy is limited to those on the left.

[rogiercreemers]

I am reminded of the Oxford Marxist philosophy professor G.A. Cohen, who had a great love of classical architecture.

[Costi]

The most unacceptable face of socialism is destructive envy: ´´If I do not have it and cannot get it or if I do not understand it, then destroy it.´´

Nicholas, that is pure communism, rather than socialism. The (f)actual, historically documented, not the utopian kind...

It is just this attitude that whittles away at the fabric of society and leads to the dominance of the culture of crabby yobs and slobs.

...and so it did, too.

[Costi]

i work in the city & have a colleague who i would estimate has a sub 100 iq, but is good at getting fund managers drunk & laid using a variety of hookers. he makes a lot of commission from trades he does for them

So perhaps you underestimate his IQ after all?...
There are some men of real talent out there!

i have shopped in budd & last time i was there the assistant advised me tht a certain shirt would be a good choice when out hunting ..

He may have been trying to dissuade you from making a risky choice

just because you make a lot of money in the system that has been created in the last 100 years or so doesnt mean that you are doing anything of any significance or value to society, merely that the society we live has decided to richly reward you for your activity.

I have a hard time remembering where and when throughout history it was any different... (not that it is a good thing, but that's how it always turns out to be: if you work too much, you have no time to make money )

[NJS]

Costi - I know some people who are so busy making money that they have no time to spend it. Old Fruit - I don´t at all approve of modern society but, on reflexion, show me a better in terms of a model of chrematistic morality. Even Old Money, which disdains ´trade´, often bought its claims to superiority on the backs of exploitation and slaughter down the ages. Still, I stick by the observation that envy is not the answer to societal concerns.
NJS

[oldfruit1]

old money is nothing more than new money passed down a few generations .. and I tend to think in many cases the maxim 'where there is a great fortune, there is a great crime' rings very true.

I admire a state such as Sweden .. not perfect but a more equitable society where amassing personal wealth is not the core purpose of individuals. A socialist society rather than a agressive capitalist one.

Fruity

I am slightly concerned that I have gone v off piste with my comments, perhaps we should all go back to talking about the merits of Neapolitan tailoring or something

[NJS]

old money is nothing more than new money passed down a few generations .. and I tend to think in many cases the maxim 'where there is a great fortune, there is a great crime' rings very true.

I admire a state such as Sweden .. not perfect but a more equitable society where amassing personal wealth is not the core purpose of individuals. A socialist society rather than a agressive capitalist one.

Fruity

I am slightly concerned that I have gone v off piste with my comments, perhaps we should all go back to talking about the merits of Neapolitan tailoring or something

Off-piste, back through the pine trees and in for an apres-ski, sounds fine to me, Old Fruity! It is difficult to generalize about these things - the Marlborough fortune was a reward for great military victories and Sir Thomas Lipton who made his fortune (from nothing) out of tea and groceries gave away hundreds of thousands (maybe even millions) of pounds in his lifetime to charity. Anyway, I did say the ´unacceptable face of socialism´.