Tweed Odd Jacket Cloth & Details

[hectorm]

The original question was promped by a page in the very average, tounge-in-cheek "Sloan Ranger Handbook".

And what was the handbook´s answer?

[lgcintra]

Thanks, dear Costi. We miss your wit (notwithstanding other members, of course).

Best,
Luis

[Costi]

Thank you, Luis! I'm glad to be back among friends.

[Melcombe]

The original question was promped by a page in the very average, tounge-in-cheek "Sloan Ranger Handbook".

And what was the handbook´s answer?

IIRC single vents were deemed acceptable for country suits, but city or formal suits should have double (or no vents). Im not sure the SRH offers entirely sound sartorial advice, since it also suggests that the only acceptable dinner jacket is one that is inherited.

I have to declare an enthisiasm for the single vent, but for a particular reason : that my shape is flattered by the strongly waisted hacking jacket style of coat (cut long, with slant pockets and a deep single vent). Most of my suits therefore have this design but only for that reason.

An acquaintance who spends much of his working life as an advocate in courts and tribunals - and therefore with clients sitting behind him much of the time - suggested that he was rather concerned how his suits appeared from the rear. So far as I have noticed, he always has work suits, of a 'sober hue' with single vent - complaining that double vents, with an established horizontal crease derived from slouching in a seat, just look scruffy.

Im very grateful for the opinions aired in this thread, since my next project is also a tweed jacket ('change coat'?). Ive homed in on a Dugdale dark brown herringbone (4202, I think), but would welcome any suggestions for alternatives. I was inspired by a coat worn by (Gen Lord) Richard Dannatt in an interview he gave shortly after retiring. As a soldier, Im sure he'd make a coal sack look smart, but his plain tweed jacket was most impressive.

I'm attracted to the idea of a swelled edge : would this be worthwhile on 13oz ? I was under the impresion that it was only a preferred feature on even heavier cloths?

[hectorm]

Thank you Melcombe for your answer.
Let me tell you that I also share your enthusiasm for single vents, particularly for the heavier tweed jackets.
A couple of ideas regarding your next project:
i) At the 13 oz. range you would be hard pressed to find what I call “real" tweed. All you get at this weight are lighter worsted cloths with tweed patterns like the Alsport.
My advice would be to go a little bit heavier and with a non-worsted finish (although worsted does not necessarily mean lighter) and start around the 15 oz. mark. If you still want to keep it light (and with a finish on the softer side), I would strongly recommend something like the Porter & Harding Glenroyal. A good alternative in dark brown would be the Galloway pattern. You can check these at Bookster and request the swatches.
ii) Swelled edges have a practical purpose in the construction of the jacket (related to avoiding the rolling of lapels, etc.). They won´t be indispensable in a light 13 oz. cloth -and I wouldn´t recommend them- but you can still have them if you love the look.

[Melcombe]

Hectorm - How glad was I to have your comments! I have now been initiated into the wonders of Porter & Harding and have plumped for their 18oz brown Hartwist herringbone - I think the weight will be just right : I was starting to have nagging doubts about the lighter option. This discovery however could be a slippery slope since I see that Harrisons are also responsible for a blue w/pane on charcoal grey (in their Oyster range) that I have been trying to track down for a while - along with a tempting array of other cloths for yet more overdraft-denting projects. And to cap it all they are located not far from me - a visit to the premises might be in order next time I'm in Exeter.

Revisiting the comments regarding the Sloane Rangers' Handbook, I have also tracked down my old copy. I have tried scanning it, but have been unable to reduce the file size to acceptable levels for posting without compromising quality. Permit me therefore to quote:

Suits and jackets

The right suits are dateless – except where you show the date label in the pocket which all proper tailors include – but they often hint at the archaic (e.g. the classic double-breasted pinstripe still says "Anthony Eden 1939") the cut’s never exaggerated although it's basically a bit baggy and easy. Suits should never look cardboard. Better be rumpled than Flash Harry. A buttonhole is essential (we are the morning coat classes). And all but the most formal of a Sloane’s suits (no vents) have two vents, for two reasons: he can put his hands in both pockets and when he moves fast or dances, the skirts fly up showing the silk lining (raspberry is a bit Charlie but it does look fine).

That great Sloane species, the waistcoat, is threatened – only one out of three suits has them now: warm offices. A rough guide for a best suit is: double-breasted, no waistcoat, single breasted, waistcoat.

Key notes. There are a few basic lines that continue practically for ever, like the pre-war wraparound double-breasted and the basic city three-piece. The worst, most Charlie, thing is a bad imitation of these.

…

The dark blue pinstripe. The famous "dark suit" or "city suit". Also the cocktail party suit. In wool worsted. The fabric must be right: the texture, distance between stripes. Anthony Eden was here.

The dark grey with chalk stripes. Same uses, but looks better than the blue in sunlight. Henry has it in worsted. Chalk striped flannel is what Italians wear.

…

The tweed suit. Ideally old (even the Old Man's). For church (with brown Oxfords), weekend midday drinks parties, Sunday lunch (perfect London if Henry needs to look pukka). Made of Donegal, Harris or other tightly woven hard tweed. Too new, too soft mock tweeds with ready-made leather patches look very Charlie.

The tweed jacket. Army's Sloanes call it a change coat. Etonians call it Half-change. Worn in all situations, particularly with jeans. Must be real tweed, seriously made by an English maker. Never in fashion cut. One vent.

The blazer. Watch it. A good (old) blazer can be wonderful if you’re Free Foresters ("United though untied") / Leander / a general / over 50 etc, but a natty blazer with the wrong buttons can slip into caricature. Two vents.

It continues in a similar vein for several pages, listing the very prescriptive do's and don'ts. It all seems terribly dated now – certainly the turn of phrase ("Charlie" - indeed...). I remember it being a huge hit in the 1980s and its observations (at the time) were spot-on in many respects. Happy to pass on copies of the scans to anyone keen to revisit 1985.

[hectorm]

Dear Melcombe, thank you for your kind words.
Knowing that my comments are sometimes appreciated and useful to others fills me with joy.
You're right, "browsing tweeds" could be addictive and might lead to spending some money, but on the other hand consider that it's a healthy pastime and you'll enjoy the garments everyday for the rest of your life.
Regarding the Sloane Rangers Handbook, I found a used copy for 99 cents plus shipping in Amazon and it's on its way home. All the comments indicate that, whatever you make of it, it's nevertheless a fun read.
Cheers

[Costi]

"Must be real tweed, seriously made by an English maker. Never in fashion cut."
Agreed

[Frog in Suit]

"Must be real tweed, seriously made by an English maker. Never in fashion cut."
Agreed

Full quote: "Must be real tweed, seriously made by an English maker. Never in a fashion cut. One vent" (Emphasis mine).

Frog in Suit ( in a pedantic mood, but who would not wear a tweed coat with two vents, except as part of a suit)

[Costi]

I gave them SOME credit.
If you wish to extend it, there it is...

Worn in all situations, particularly with jeans. Must be real tweed, seriously made by an English maker. Never in fashion cut. One vent.

(emphasis mine)
(and even so, it's still not full quote...)

Shall I pass you the salt?

[Scot]

English maker???

The coat, possibly; the cloth, certainly not.

[Costi]

English maker???

The coat, possibly; the cloth, certainly not.

indeed...

[emc894]

An update:

I was just measured and ordered the jacket. I chose black and white herringbone Harris Tweed from Harrisons. I was chose two buttons, three on cuff, charcoal lining, double vent, non-patch flapped pockets and ticket pocket, but was swayed into choosing slanted pockets. If this is an equestrian detail, it seems out of place with a double vented coat. What do you think (of course, I realize the only people who would ever notice the incongruity are probably members of this website or tailors)?

On suits, I think the slanted pockets sometimes look like the wearer just received his first bespoke suit and wanted to go wild, but I don't know about tweed jackets.

[Frog in Suit]

I gave them SOME credit.
If you wish to extend it, there it is...

Worn in all situations, particularly with jeans. Must be real tweed, seriously made by an English maker. Never in fashion cut. One vent.

(emphasis mine)
(and even so, it's still not full quote...)

Shall I pass you the salt?

Jeans ? Egad ! I’d forgotten…Cavalry twill or flannels, more likely, at least for an old codger like me. Or perhaps cords or moleskin.

English maker???

The coat, possibly; the cloth, certainly not.

There is (was) excellent tweed woven in England (Yorkshire?). As far as I know, John G. Hardy did not claim their traditional Alsport range was made in Scotland. Does anyone know? Some of the old Alsport was as close to bulletproof as humanly possible. I think the range is being phased out in favour of softer cloths.
I have one coat in a now discontinued fabric, made up in 1984, which is just now acquiring the mellowness ones aspires to, which only comes with time...
I also seem to remember reading (where? when?) that Huntsman's house tweeds were woven in Huddersfield.
Frog in Suit

[Scot]

There is (was) excellent tweed woven in England (Yorkshire?). As far as I know, John G. Hardy did not claim their traditional Alsport range was made in Scotland. Does anyone know? Some of the old Alsport was as close to bulletproof as humanly possible. I think the range is being phased out in favour of softer cloths.
I have one coat in a now discontinued fabric, made up in 1984, which is just now acquiring the mellowness ones aspires to, which only comes with time...
I also seem to remember reading (where? when?) that Huntsman's house tweeds were woven in Huddersfield.

As a Yorkshireman residing in Scotland I will permit these exceptions