My question is how can bespoke acommodate for a dropped shoulder better than MTM?
One member wrote to me and indicated that he prefers bespoke because he has a dropped shoulder. I understand that almost every man has a dropped shoulder.
Furthermore, it is my understanding that the coat is supposed to appear symmetrical at the shoulders even then the shoulders may not be balanced.
How does bespoke tailoring acommodate for the dropped shoulder? Is that shoulder cut differently from the "normal" shoulder? Is the usual solution in both bespoke and MTM to pad the dropped shoulder?
Thanks.
MTM vs. Bespoke and the Dropped Shoulder
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Guest
First of all, any bespoke house can compensate for your dropped shoulder. I would say that only the best MTM programs would be able to accomplish this. Most companies MTM are not detailed enough in their process that they actually care about body deformities. For most it is changing fabrics, going from a drop 6 to a drop 5 etc. A few do more complete measuremnets and actually alter the model significantly to fit.
If you are in the US, you should look up the reps for different MTM options and call them before you try. Don't just ask your local salesman, as they are likely to say yes just to be able to sell the suit.
The second question is more personal. I imagine that any building up of the shoulder with extra padding will make the jacket less comfortable, whereas if it is simply cut differently you should be ok. I don't like to get too built up or stretched out, so I generally go with the minimum amount of fixing of my physique, within reason.
If you are in the US, you should look up the reps for different MTM options and call them before you try. Don't just ask your local salesman, as they are likely to say yes just to be able to sell the suit.
The second question is more personal. I imagine that any building up of the shoulder with extra padding will make the jacket less comfortable, whereas if it is simply cut differently you should be ok. I don't like to get too built up or stretched out, so I generally go with the minimum amount of fixing of my physique, within reason.
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Guest
A bepsoke pattern can be drawn to accomodate the dropped shoulder at the cutting stage. MTM patterns can perhaps be altered to accomodate the drop, but altering an existing pattern is not going to be as precise as drawing one from scratch. See, for instance, Alden's post on this topic:
http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/forum/vie ... php?t=5109
There are two issues to think about: fit/ balance, and aesthetic symmetry. In terms of fit and balance, the drop must be accomodated in the pattern, or else corrected at the alterations stage. There are a number of ways that a dropped shoulder can throw off both fit and balance, not least being that the buttons won't line up, lapels might bow, the coat may hang too long on one side, dents might appear at the waist, etc. These really ought to be addressed.
Aesthetic symmetry, however, is more a matter of personal choice. A dropped shoulder of 1/2" or less does not really need any manipulation to appear symmetrical. Very few people will be able to tell, unless they stare at the coat for some time while the wearer stands still against a blank background. Nonetheless, on padded coats, even small drops tend to be concealed under the pad. Any more than 1/2", and the drop might be noticable. You have two choices: if you prefer unpadded coats, you can just live with a slight discrepency. If your coats are padded, the thickness of the padding can be slightly increased on the dropped side to mask the difference.
--manton
http://thelondonlounge.net/gl/forum/vie ... php?t=5109
There are two issues to think about: fit/ balance, and aesthetic symmetry. In terms of fit and balance, the drop must be accomodated in the pattern, or else corrected at the alterations stage. There are a number of ways that a dropped shoulder can throw off both fit and balance, not least being that the buttons won't line up, lapels might bow, the coat may hang too long on one side, dents might appear at the waist, etc. These really ought to be addressed.
Aesthetic symmetry, however, is more a matter of personal choice. A dropped shoulder of 1/2" or less does not really need any manipulation to appear symmetrical. Very few people will be able to tell, unless they stare at the coat for some time while the wearer stands still against a blank background. Nonetheless, on padded coats, even small drops tend to be concealed under the pad. Any more than 1/2", and the drop might be noticable. You have two choices: if you prefer unpadded coats, you can just live with a slight discrepency. If your coats are padded, the thickness of the padding can be slightly increased on the dropped side to mask the difference.
--manton
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Guest
The main difference, in my view, between accomodating for a drop using MTM or bespoke is that with almost all MTM houses they do not leave fabric inside the shoulder seam for correction. In other words it is either right or wrong. Wrong in one direction, ie coat cut with too much drop shoulder, means a new coat. Wrong in that not enough drop was accomodated means a simple, but not always welcome, pad in the shoulder to fill in the gap. Bespoke, on the other hand, means your coat is fitted to your body and allowances for original mistakes by the cutter are built in to this method of work. This means that your coat can be raised or lowered on thr drop side without any problem. but this is oine of the reasons you pay much more for bespoke!!!
As far as levels houlders are concrened - well - this does not bother me, unless it bothers my client. Take my body for example (not many would take me up on that) I am 1 1/2" lower on my right than on my left. To put a pad 1 1/2" in my coats on the right would feel and look hideous. I put only a samll extra piece of padding in my coats on the right to compensate, yet I do not believe I can ever recall anyone comment, unless that person was a cutter or a student of fit, how low my right shoulder actually looked.
The making of a coat has many stages, but dealing with putting the coat on in the fitting room I would say that 99.9% of men, at this stage, will be looking at general appearance rather than specific points. And this 99.9%, once they have walked out of the fitting room and accepted the suit, will barely look at themselves in the mirror when getting dressed in the morning. they will, at that stage, simply be putting their suit on and going to work. very few take in every details of their clothes prior to walking out the door. Now this must seem very strange to those who patronize sites such as LondonLounge, but this is the reality of it.
Leonard
As far as levels houlders are concrened - well - this does not bother me, unless it bothers my client. Take my body for example (not many would take me up on that) I am 1 1/2" lower on my right than on my left. To put a pad 1 1/2" in my coats on the right would feel and look hideous. I put only a samll extra piece of padding in my coats on the right to compensate, yet I do not believe I can ever recall anyone comment, unless that person was a cutter or a student of fit, how low my right shoulder actually looked.
The making of a coat has many stages, but dealing with putting the coat on in the fitting room I would say that 99.9% of men, at this stage, will be looking at general appearance rather than specific points. And this 99.9%, once they have walked out of the fitting room and accepted the suit, will barely look at themselves in the mirror when getting dressed in the morning. they will, at that stage, simply be putting their suit on and going to work. very few take in every details of their clothes prior to walking out the door. Now this must seem very strange to those who patronize sites such as LondonLounge, but this is the reality of it.
Leonard
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Guest
Leonard
I do agree and count myself among the 99.9% who don’t worry about a coat once it’s finished and inserted into the rotation. This, for the simple reason that once the jacket is made, it’s made. The attention to detail, measures and styling had better have occurred from the first through to the last fitting. That is the period where we would like to see men become more competent i.e. better able to understand, identify, visualize and communicate the detail points. And this competency is not intended to rival that of the craftsman but to compliment it.
Like you I have a particular aversion to seeing men who seek to mask their deformities with gobs of padding. As you so rightly point out, the result is rarely aesthetically pleasing. More importantly, the wearer sends a message to the world that he is very dissatisfied with who he is and is struggling to appear. One is at the direct contrary state to that of Elegance when encumbered by this disheartening mindset.
M Alden
I do agree and count myself among the 99.9% who don’t worry about a coat once it’s finished and inserted into the rotation. This, for the simple reason that once the jacket is made, it’s made. The attention to detail, measures and styling had better have occurred from the first through to the last fitting. That is the period where we would like to see men become more competent i.e. better able to understand, identify, visualize and communicate the detail points. And this competency is not intended to rival that of the craftsman but to compliment it.
Like you I have a particular aversion to seeing men who seek to mask their deformities with gobs of padding. As you so rightly point out, the result is rarely aesthetically pleasing. More importantly, the wearer sends a message to the world that he is very dissatisfied with who he is and is struggling to appear. One is at the direct contrary state to that of Elegance when encumbered by this disheartening mindset.
M Alden
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Guest
Therefore, in so many words, it is preferable not to pad when the shoulder drop is slight.
However, if the shoulder drop is significant, is it better to pad to acheive a more balanced, final look? In other words, with a significant dropped shoulder, wouldn't an unpadded shoulder look unbalanced?
However, if the shoulder drop is significant, is it better to pad to acheive a more balanced, final look? In other words, with a significant dropped shoulder, wouldn't an unpadded shoulder look unbalanced?
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Guest
. . . . f the shoulder drop is significant, is it better to pad to acheive a more balanced, final look? . . . .
To my eyes, no. Even though the wearer's body might not look absolutely symmetrical, the man will look more self-confident -- and, with a wellmade suit from nice cloth, others' attention will focus on garment and face, not shoulders.
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Guest
this is an issue, where a lot of people look in the wrong area. Dropped shoulders usually have little to do with teh shoulder, and actually are caused by a constriction in the rib cage (this is typically true of sportsmen who play racquet sports). The extra development of the muscle on the 'leading' side caused the constriction and causes the shoulder to appear dropped. (this is not universally true, dropped shoulders are also caused during accidents etc). In MTM there is not much you can do beside put in an extra pad on the shoulder, but in true bespoke the alteration is treated by removing a 'wedge' of fabric from the rib cage, causing the garment to fall evenly (without the unsighly bulging/wrinking in MTM or RTW). Thus in a properly tailored and cut bespoke suit both sides of the body will appear smooth and clean.
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Guest
One issue that I am personally familiar with is to make sure that when you are being measured or fitted, that you present your true body, and not some ideal that you wish for. In other words, do not try to stand straighter than you do, or to level your shoulders or anything. The tailor is there to see everything about you and to fit your body the best way possible. Don't handicap him.
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