Best leather for Lapland boots and furcoat

[Pierre Spies]

Dear LL fellows,

in anticipation for a February dog sledding trip in Finnish Lapland, I'm willing to build a bespoke equipment. The 2 main subjects for which help is needed are boots and the fur coat.

1) Boots: I'm looking for the best possible, waterproof, breathable leather for high winter boots. I've heard of the famous Russian Leather, supposedly the best leather ever, tanned in birch oil tar for 3 trillion years etc. unfortunately the only leathers that seem to remain from that formula come up from the shipwreck of a Russian vessel near England...
So, I'm looking for advice for a type of leather AND a good place to buy it from.

2) The fur coat: Same idea. I'd welcome any good recommendation in terms of quality, type of fur and address.

I live in Paris so any insight on France suppliers or online ones would be more practical.

I wish that within the next 6 months I'll be able to post pics of the finished garments (hopefully not just my grandma's knitted socks...)

Thanks

Guillaume

[aston]

Hi Guillaume

In the Nordics, there is a saying, ".....no such thing as bad weather, only the wrong clothes...."

Having spent a couple of winters in both Finland and Norway, often in temperatures lower than -25 celcius, I am happy to have gone with the advice of the locals; always wool next to your skin, many thin layers, and nothing that absorbs moisture. So apart from the wool, everything they have pointed me to has been man made, and made specifically for the pretty hostile environment of those climactic conditions.

Apart from keeping me very warm, the other benefit immediately obvious to me was how light everything felt.

Enjoy the Huskies!!

[Simon A]

Wintertime old-school style! I love it!

All-leather boots may not be the best choice as they never have a chance to dry out once wet in the field. In Canada it is common to see boots with a rubber vamp and leather uppers ("Pac boots"), lined in heavy felt or Thinsulate, used in heavy snow at -35 degrees or less. Mushers and cowboys wear them in quite hostile conditions every day; I can attest that they are practical and robust, and they look respectable. There are many MTM bootmakers in Canada and the US who make them to a good standard.

The Norwegian Lobben boot is a heavy felt lace-up boot with a rubber sole and is probably quite common where you are going.

If you are really set on all-leather boots, a triple-vamp moccasin high-top hunting boot with 400-gramme Thinsulate lining would provide reasonable water resistance and good insulation. Russell Moccasins in the US make these on a MTM basis. The triple-vamp ensures that no seams in any layer of the vamp are adjacent to the seams beneath it, giving good water resistance.

For furs, beaver gives excellent insulation (it has dense underfur and profuse guard hairs), looks masculine and is not very expensive. It would be up to you whether they are made European coat-style or Siberian parka-style. Keep the length no more than mid-thigh, you don't want to be carrying a soggy train of wet pelts below your knees. I know that some mushers in the old days used to carry a hooded canvas shell garment, like an anorak, to pull over their furs if the winds really picked up, and some North American outfitters still sell them http://www.empirecanvasworks.com , or your tailor could make one after your furs are made. You can have a beaver fur ushanka made at the same time.

A reason furs have gone out of favour with some mushers is that, as people warm up, they don't have quite the flexibility of removing thin layers to maintain a comfortable temperature. Sweating heavily in freezing temperatures can be a problem when you cool down.

It sounds like a great trip, enjoy!

[cathach]

Another traditional item of footwear in Russia and Poland is the wool felt boot. This is worn over wool socks and these days can sometimes be gotten with a rubber sole I believe. Valenki is what they are called in Russian, here's a website so you can get an idea of what they look like http://www.rusclothing.com/valenki-felt-boots/adults/.

Its funny you mention going bespoke on an expedition, not so long ago I read how a Savile Row firm fitted out a modern mountaineer in the same gear that was made for Mallory's expedition to Mt. Everest. The mountaineer said the clothing was in everyway superior to the modern stuff because the natural fibres breathe and because the close were made to fit him they moved with his body. No gaps in insulation through as hems were tugged upwards through arm movements for example. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/5076634.stm

[Pierre Spies]

Thanks a lot for the great advice! Very interesting...

Still, I'm indeed looking to go bespoke on this and would welcome ideas about where to find suitable raw materials.

Gui

[couch]

Dear Guillaume,

I have no direct experience of such projects or the conditions requiring them, but if cathach and Simon A. are unable to help you with sourcing materials, perhaps you might inquire at The Explorers Club/ to see whether their records (or older members) have any appropriate knowledge. Burberry claim to have made the outer gabardine layers for Shackleton, Amundsen, and Mallory (no doubt bespoke then). I rather doubt that any relevant knowledge remains at the firm, but you could ask. Norton & Sons, on Savile Row, use their history of outfitting explorers in their marketing (as in the BBC series on Savile Row a few years back); again I don't know whether Patrick Grant or his current staff can draw on any relevant experience for arctic sledding conditions.

Here is one source for beaver and other fur pelts (I have no idea whether these are good prices, whether there are import/export restrictions on North American beaver pelts, or whether a wholesale price is available to the trade for furriers or tailors who might make up your garments.

Good luck! If you succeed in this project, please post photos!

[couch]

And an addition:

I ran across this list: Sled Dog Central. Some of their sources list things like wool anoraks and polar-lined wool parkas. Perhaps one of them might be able to provide a bespoke service or provide materials.

My own coldest-weather parka is a Canada Goose expedition parka as used by the National Science Foundation for its permanent station at McMurdo Station in Artactica. It's plenty for the harshest conditions I ever face. But as the lining and shell are both synthetics, I would expected it to become clammy if worn during strenuous exercise, such as mushing.

[cathach]

Thanks a lot for the great advice! Very interesting...

Still, I'm indeed looking to go bespoke on this and would welcome ideas about where to find suitable raw materials.

Gui

Pierre,

For the felt boots you'd have to buy them ready-made if you were interested in them, theres no structure or anything else to them that could be improved by bespoke construction I think.

For what is described as cotton gaberdine in the articles is probably cotton Ventile which can be bought by the running metre. Its the material used by the English designer Nigel Cabourn whose area of design is in reproducing wartime outerwear and expedition wear. http://www.ventile.co.uk/. He has a parka made from Ventile stuffed with goose down which is a replica of the parka Hilary wore climbing Everest apparently.

Remember to buy double the length as for heavy-duty activity they recommend it be double and special seams called double overlocking seams be used. A diagram of this recommended sewing technique is on their website.

I don't know where you'd get goose down though. As far as I understand most of it is harvested in Eastern Europe for use in quilts etc.

[Simon A]

Ventile is a great choice, as it is quite water-resistant compared to ordinary canvas but breathes relatively well.

I have dealt with these fur dealers before in the US: http://www.frasersfur.com/ , and http://www.glacierwear.net/.

[Pierre Spies]

Thanks guys, again great advice. I will investigate the fur suppliers.
I reckon that conditions shouldn't be "extreme" during the trip, so while I'm looking for the best materials, I don't think I'll need the Everest expedition ones...
So I shall try to find the best leather for the boots, or the best available to make the most breathable and waterproof boots for the trip.
for the pants I'll go for heavy weight (overcoating) flannel. Costi recommended i use silk longjohns for extra warmth. Then I shall rely on merino wool sweaters and knitted wool socks.
Maybe Costi might post pictures of his equipment which looked pretty nice.

[Costi]

Here you are, Guillaume: viewtopic.php?p=27276#p27276


walking on water

[Taller]

the advice of the locals; always wool next to your skin, many thin layers, and nothing that absorbs moisture

Had they been drinking again, Aston? Wool absorbs moisture as enthusiastically as a Russian absorbs vodka! That's why a wool sweater takes forever to dry after having been washed and a hollow-fiber polyester shirt comes out of the laundry-machine as good as dry...

[aston]

Taller,

Sorry if it was not clear. Thin woolen layer next to the skin (eg merino vest and long johns), then may thin layers, with the outer layer made from non-absorbent material.

[Costi]

Wool does absorb moisture, but it also wicks it away more effectively than cotton, which has a higher rate of retention and gets soaked. Also, wool doesn't get smelly like polyester, which absorbs no moisture and only transfers it away, acquiring a terrible stench in the process. Plus wool insulates thermally even when wet and does not actually feel wet on the skin (even if it is).
I guess you don't spin or wring your pullovers, which is why they take an eternity to dry. And I hope your knowledge of polyester shirts is only theoretical

[Taller]

Aahh, so that's why a thin layer of wool can be worn next to the skin! Thank you for clarifying.
The words "polyester" and "shirt" together in the same sentence will indeed produce a sharp intake of breath in most members, Costi. Which is rather a pity, I always think. Because cotton does indeed get soaked. I believe it can hold 45 % of its own weight in water. I know - I used to ride my racing bike with a cotton shirt under my racing jersey, back in the seventies and eighties. What a relief it was when hollow-fiber polyester became available: never again that awful feeling of a soaked shirt on your back!
The undershirts for sports activities as produced by firms like Craft and others do not resemble in any way the abominable polyester shirts gentlemen were once supposed to wear as cheap, drip-dry, non-iron alternatives to cotton shirts. These were personal hothouses, impenetrable to any ventilation - the very opposite of hollow-fibre polyester (which does not really 'wick' perspiration, if I'm correctly informed: millions of tunnels in the garment allow the gases escaping from the skin to be transported to the next layer of clothing before they even turn liquid).
As far as I know no firm has ever tried to create a hollow-fiber polyester shirt one can wear with a suit. Why not? It's got a nice hand - in fact it's softer than cotton, rather like angora (anghora?) and it feels very comfortable to the skin. Perhaps it needs to be skin-tight in order to be able to breathe? Maybe it cannot be dyed? Needs a smoother surface but cannot be mixed with cotton?
Aaahhh.... to never be uncomfortable again in a room that's too hot....

As for polyester acquiring a stench: I wash my sport shirts after every training, so I'm not aware of any problem. You seem to suggest polyester stinks more than cotton as a result of some chemical reaction? Sounds rather alchemistic to me, Costi. I know polyester has a bad name, but surely...
Anyway, gentlemen never sweat.