An Italian Bespoke Wedding

[rathatha]

Hello All

I have been an avid reader of londonlounge for quite some time and so far only managed to pick up a little of the enormous amounts of sartorial knowledge there is in this forum. I finally got a chance to contribute, hopefully useful, with my experiences getting a first bespoke suit.

I just turned 30 and off the rack suits do fit me well when carefully chosen, but I have been craving for a bespoke experience for quite a while. I finally decided to get a bespoke suit for my impending wedding in Italy in July. Through this post I will describe the whole process as I go through it and will hopefully be useful to some.

I started with the very informative post by manton on Wedding Attire. However, I chose to go with a standard 3 piece suit ( not sure if I should call it a lounge suit), so that I can use it for other occasions as well.

Suit: I always wanted my first bespoke suit to be Saville Row (English Cut or A&S), but given the logistics of 3 fittings etc. I have decided to research Italian tailors. I went through the forum and realized Napoli is the sartorial heaven of Italy. However, Rome is closer for me and decided to check out Brioni in via Barberini on 21-Apr-2012. The store is nice, but nothing special. The service was courteous and friendly. However, it all seemed very commercial and there was no personal touch. After 5 minutes of discussion, someone took my measurements in a hurry, helped me choose a fabric and gave me a price quote.I left my business card telling them I will call them back.
I had been eyeing Caraceni in Rome till then, but felt that it might be very expensive. After seeing Brioni's quote, I wanted to check Caraceni as well. Called them during the week and asked them if it is possible to see them on a Saturday and surprisingly they agreed. Saturday morning, Carlo (my cutter) opened the store for us and we started talking. He asked a few questions about where and what time the wedding is, what color the dress of my fiancee is etc to help me choose the right fabric. He started by showing me a 8 oz super 140, but given my inclination to stay with a medium weight fabric, I told him I prefer a 11-12 oz. While we were going through the fabrics, he mentioned that he was travelling during the week to take the measurements of Valentino in Paris. My fiancee mentioned that I have been studying about Caraceni and that we knew he cuts the suits for Valentino. Carlo was immediately excited and invited me into the cutting room etc. to show a few pictures of suits and jackets he cut for Valentino. There were also some trousers getting made for Valentino and he let me examine them. After that he took me to the textile room where there was a bigger selection of Fabrics and finally we chose a dark gray 12 oz super 120 fabric. He then took me into another room for measurements. The wall is plastered with pictures of Who's who of the world including Sarkozy & Berlusconi. While my fiancee was taking pictures, Carlo started taking measurements. I told him that I like a more "English" cut than "Italian" and that I like my shoulders to be as devoid of padding as possible. He said "dont worry, you have a decent shoulder, I will take care of it" (in italian ofcourse). Then I told him, I like my suits a little shorter and he said " dont worry, a suit has to have a certain presence, I will take care of it". And finally he said "If you are here, we will give you one of our designs, why think of a English cut. Dont worry, We will take care of you". I am certain he will make a great suit that fits exactly his taste . However, he is very warm and pleasant and I am certain he will take care of me. He did not understand that I wanted a three piece suit and when I mentioned that he took me to wear a sample vest and took my measurements again. We had some more pleasant conversation and set out to leave. Offered to pay an advance but he refused and told us he will call us when he is ready.

Even before the suit comes out, I highly recommend Caraceni in Roma for being such gentlemen and making all this such a pleasant experience.

Before leaving we asked for suggestions on shoes and a shirt. For the Shirt, he has directed us to "Soldati" on via Arno. For shoes he said I could just go to via xxx(i didnt quite get it). We thanked and left. He called me today to tell me that he is ready for the first fitting and that the suit has come out very well. I am so so excited.

Please do give me any suggestions for things to watch out for during a first fitting as this is the first time for me.

I will continue posting as I go through the entire process.

[rathatha]

Hello again,

Here I will take you through what is happening with a bespoke shirt. I browsed through the forum and wanted to have a shirt made my Leonardo Bugelli in Florence or Mimmo Siviglia in Rome, again for convenience. Called Leonardo, but he was very busy and was not taking any orders until September. However, since at Caraceni I was directed to Soldati decided to get my shirt made by Soldati.

Soldati is another small shop on via Arno, seems almost as old as Caraceni. There was one old lady and another younger lady. I mentioned that I was directed to them by Carlo at Caraceni and they have not stopped referring to Caraceni whenever they made a suggestion. They stock Carlo Riva, SICTESS and Testa, but seem to think highly of Testa fabrics. I chose a white voile from Testa which was highly recommended ( specially since i come from Caraceni). Chose cuffs, collars, monogram etc and measurements were taken. Also chose another blue voile from Testa. I wanted a Carlo Riva but I was told that Testa is better in some respects. At Soldati I mostly went with what was recommended to me. The ladies were pleasant and seemed genuinely trying to help me make the right choice. Ordered both the shirts, but still waiting for a call for a fitting which they said they will do with muslin the first time.

Please do let me know if you have any reservations about Testa as a fabric or if there is anything I need to know for a first time shirt fitting.

[rathatha]

Shoes: On the same day, I called Edward Green in London to find a stockist in Rome. I was directed to via Luca Della Robbia ( in Testaccio) to a store called BoccaNera. Very nice store and I tried on Church's and two models of Edward Greens. They were both beautifully made but I was not entirely convinced about the comfort. Either the size or the unfamiliarity of Cordovan did not feel right.During the week I mailed Justin @ Shoe Snob and called a few other bespoke shoe makers in Italy. Stefano Bemer interested me most, but realized that bespoke shoed prices are unaffordable for me and hence decided against it. Over the weekend, I settled for a very nice basic pair of Campanile.

Tie: Next stop is to get a tie and I have decided to go to Napoli and get a Marinella ( Black/Silver/Gray). After asking for suggestions in the forum I was directed to Cappelli, who has a very convenient online store. Although I wish to touch and feel before I buy, I just made an impulse buy of the tie shown below. Shall update with pictures when I receive it. Hope it will go well with a dark gray suit.

[rathatha]

Tie: Next stop is to get a tie and I have decided to finally go to Napoli and get a Marinella ( Black/Silver/Gray). Please do let me know if anyone has any better suggestions in Rome. I somehow do not like Battistoni or Brioni.

[davidhuh]

Dear Rathatha,

very entertaining postings, thank you

I think you did many things right (reading the LL a lot, having your suit made in Italy as you live there, not going to Brioni but Caraceni, listening to the shirt making ladies...).

Your question re. the first fitting: My advice would be that you say nothing at all. If the tailor is asking you something, you reply. The first fitting is really for the tailor, there is little you can add. At the second fitting, I am more outspoken - this is when my input is really needed.

Regarding the shoes: Edward Green has probably the best RTW shoes you can get. It might be worthwhile investing in an Easy Jet ticket to London and visit their Jermyn Street store.

Good luck and keep us posted
cheers, david

[davidhuh]

Marinella ( Black/Silver/Gray)

Dear Rathatha,

Marinella: very good; Cappelli: better (my taste)
http://www.patriziocappelli.it/catalog/ ... bd1ki2q9u6

cheers, david

[dopey]

rathatha:
Somewhere on this site you will find my experience with Caraceni in Rome. I visited them on two successive summers, was very happy and will likely return again this summer.
Best of luck.

[rathatha]

Hello Dopey

I went to Caraceni in Rome only because I read both your posts It is exactly as you described and every bit excellent.

Regards

[rathatha]

Davidhuh

Thanks a lot for the suggestions. Shall keep them in mind and update as I progress.

How do I post pictures on this forum? Can you help please.

Regards

[culverwood]

First upload your photo to a site such as photobucket or imageshack
The site will store the photo with a reference such as http://i95.photobucket.com/albums/l140/ ... MG1742.jpg

If you look at the line of icons when you post a reply you will see an img button just insert your photo's reference between the {img}{/img}.

Et voila

[rathatha]

Thank you culverwood. I just posted a picture of my tie, thanks to you.

[rathatha]

Apologies that I couldnt continue the thread in a timely fashion to take you through my bespoke experience. I will however write up a summary of all that happened after my last post. I do not have many photos of the process, but I shall post the photographs of the final results.

As it happened, the last time I bought the tie from Cappelli( as suggested by davidhuh) and it arrived nicely packaged and does look much better than the photos in the website. However, not being a expert in this subject I am still not sure of the difference in the look of a unlined tie vs a lined tie. The unlined seven fold silk tie is markedly more difficult to knot and I do hope that it does look better. I am starting to think if unlined seven fold ties is not a marketing gimmick. However, the quality of the tie and material are superior to anything I have ever had before. And dealing with Patrizio is a nice experience. As soon as you place an order on the website he emails you confirming your order and a time estimate of when he will be able to ship. I took the opportunity to ask him a few questions and he turned out to be a very pleasant gentleman. Even though I have my doubts on the whole seven fold being better theory, I gave another Cappelli tie as a gift to my father in law.

I realize I might be kicking off a row over the superiority of seven fold ties, but I do believe that it will be very educative to us neophytes to hear expert opinions.

During my whole experience, so many questions popped up in my mind ( I will write them up as I go through) and most times it seems as if we do a few things because thats how they were done before. I am confused over ties, pleats vs flatfronts, cuffs vs no cuffs on trousers, cufflinks vs buttons, weight of the fabric etc.etc. In the end it all comes down to individual taste and comfort, but when one is a novice, these questions all make decision making so much more difficult ( and fun I must say).

On the shoe front, I bought Campanile, but I was not convinced and after the wedding I bit the bullet and bought a pair of Edward Greens.

The shirts from Soldati have come out nicely. I will post pictures and wait for your comments. However, the experience for the money paid is not what I expected it to be. I am getting bespoke shirts/suits etc not only for the fit, comfort, quality but also for a chance to understand the artisan's work, passion and to feel pampered. At Soldati, measurements were taken by a lady at the shop without the cutter/tailor. I did get two trials later on with a muslin, but none with the actual shirts. After two trials, they directly consigned the shirts with the actual tailor never having looked at how the final result fits on my body. I like the resulting shirt, but I do not recommend them, surely not for a novice. Also, the material while very nice is not exactly easy to maintain. I did not manage to have it pressed perfectly after the first use and when the shirt is not pressed properly it is better to wear a off the rack shirt than bespoke. I have reread the post of Alden about how the first bespoke suit should be gotten done only after we understand the process and find that perfect shirt. I believe he is 100% right. I have since then been in contact with Maria Frittolini hopefully she will be my perfect shirtmaker. Shall keep you posted.

And now for Caraceni. The whole experience with them has been exquisite. Carlo(the head cutter) is excellent and helps one through every stage of the process. I have the luxury of living close to Rome and so have had 4 fittings before getting my suit and Carlo has checked every detail. The resulting suit is very very well made and fits like a glove. As has been said before, Caraceni have a house style and they execute it flawlessly. It is very difficult to get them to change. But Carlo does say that and rightly so: If you come to Caraceni, get a Caraceni. If you need something else, you go somewhere else. I can go through the whole detail of the suit making process with Caraceni if anyone is interested, but for now, I must say anyone with time must visit Caraceni once atleast. And soon as Carlo is quite old.

There is two other places/persons that I need to mention: Charlie Trevor at Equus Leather of the UK and Gianpaolo at Al Bazar in Milano.

I bought a black and a brown belt from Equus. Both are extremely well made and perfectly priced I must say. They are all handmade with love and care and look very very elegant. Charlie personally takes you through the whole process and it is a pleasure to deal with him. For real leather belts, this is a place everyone must take a look at.

A lot has been said about Al Bazar in thelondonlounge as well as other forums. I passed by a few days ago to buy a pair of cufflinks and in the end bought cufflinks, a shirt and a pair of trousers. And almost bought two jackets. It is a cozy little place staffed by very well dressed and charming gentlemen who genuinely want to see you well dressed. I do hope Al Bazar remains as small and wonderful as it is today and I will return to the place as often as I can.

Below are some of the pictures of eveything described above.

On the whole, my bespoke experience has been a lot of fun and dangerously addictive. I learnt a lot from forums like thelondonglounge and I thank Michael Alden for taking such an initiative at educating young aspiring dandies. I will surely be around these forums and have decided to add one bespoke garment every year to my wardrobe. Thanks everyone.

[rathatha]

Pictures are from the wedding, not taken to show the niceties of the cloths. But suggestions and comments that can help me make my next bespoke commission better are most welcome.

[hectorm]

Sorry, I cannot open the pictures.

[hectorm]

The shirts from Soldati have come out nicely. I will post pictures and wait for your comments..... I like the resulting shirt, but I do not recommend them, surely not for a novice. Also, the material while very nice is not exactly easy to maintain.

Dear rathatha, congratulations for your wedding!
I´m a bit puzzled by you post (see above) particularly by the statement that your shirts are not easy to maintain.
Stating that I´m hardly a novice, would you please elaborate a little more on the reasons you would not recommend the shirts from Camiceria Soldati? I have not tried them myself but in the past I´ve been directed by reputable tailors to their shop in Rome for good "camicie su misura".
Cheers