Black tie affairs

[Incroyable]

Recently I have not seen a single person, when in evening wear, don chamois or kid-skin gloves.

And they have a tendency to wear indecent wristwatches with their evening wear. Personally I feel that only a dress pocket watch is appropriate.

Anyone else have any feelings on this?

[Cufflink79]

A pocket watch looks great with anything. If your not wearing a vest then a nice slim gold or silver dress wrist watch with black leather band will work just fine. Remember what Alan Flusser stated about watches in his books "the slimer the watch the more elegant". At least thats the wordings I remember, don't have the book right in front of me right now. . Leave the Rolex and Omega for 007 . Most of the time I have seen people wearing a wrist wacth or no watch at all with formal wear. I remember when Robert Redford stared as "The Great Gatsby" and wore a nice pocket watch with a cross over vest with his tux, very elegant.

Best Regards,

Cufflink79

[Concordia]

Miss Manners nixes wristwatches with black/white tie, and that's good enough for me.

Possible exception would be if dinner dress is your work uniform, i.e., if you're a musician or a waiter. But it's more elegant to do without. Leave it with the briefcase and the wing-tips.

[RWS]

The origin of the no-watch rule (as I understood it from long-dead grandparents and from ancillary reading in a former career) is the impoliteness of caring about time while either entertaining or being entertained by friends or family: a gentleman's (or lady's) attention is upon the moment or upon his guests or host, not upon what he might do afterward -- and, therefore, he has no need to tell the time. The setting and occasion are thus more important than the dress as a guide to wearing a pocket or wristwatch: one shouldn't wear a wristwatch to a dinner party at a friend's home, regardless of whether one wears a dinner jacket or no jacket; but one might wear a watch to opening night at the local symphony, even if in white tie.

Beyond this consideration, of course, is the visual aesthetic: a pocket watch looks better than a wristwatch with evening dress; I personally think a wristwatch looks better than a pocket watch (too fussy) with black tie. But I generally have no engagement following a public appearance in black tie (a charity dinner-dance, perhaps, or the opera) and so have no need of any watch.

[TVD]

I cannot recall the exact source, but I thought that the tailcoat called for a pocket watch with a glass face (not a full hunter) with a fob (not chain) which would hang out of the waistcoat pocket but not be attached to any button holes. I think Breguet originally created a few very elegant designs on these lines.

I would appreciate somebody with more historical knowledge elaborate, please. We require a list of period portraits of gentlemen in evening dress to examine this in detail.

[Concordia]

...but one might wear a watch to opening night at the local symphony, even if in white tie.

If you have to look at your watch during a concert, you've gone to the wrong place.

[TVD]

The legitimate use of a watch in white tie is to look at it repeatedly and worriedly while pacing up and down the lobby as one's female guest for the night delays her arrival until 15 seconds before the doors are closed for the performance to begin.

[dopey]

The origin of the no-watch rule (as I understood it from long-dead grandparents and from ancillary reading in a former career) is the impoliteness of caring about time while either entertaining or being entertained by friends or family: a gentleman's (or lady's) attention is upon the moment or upon his guests or host, not upon what he might do afterward -- and, therefore, he has no need to tell the time. The setting and occasion are thus more important than the dress as a guide to wearing a pocket or wristwatch: one shouldn't wear a wristwatch to a dinner party at a friend's home, regardless of whether one wears a dinner jacket or no jacket; but one might wear a watch to opening night at the local symphony, even if in white tie.

. . .

This is an accurate account of what is “correct” and of what are good manners. Here is an obvious example of why some rules make sense. Another way to say it is that no rule is necessary if you have the right sensibility - you will work out the right behavior on your own. The modern corollary is that you don’t need a blackberry pocket in your dinner suit.

[RWS]

If you have to look at your watch during a concert, you've gone to the wrong place.

'Might depend upon the program!

[Concordia]

Which would only prove my point.

[Incroyable]

Yes, as I understand it, it was considered that people who were in white or black tie had unlimited amounts of leisure time thus they did not have need for a watch.

However, since there are certain limitations preventing that rather nice thought I feel that a pocket watch is the most elegant way to pander to practicality in these cases.

I think for white-tie, the fob is correct; the watch is attached to a broad silk ribbon and placed in the pocket with possibly a small amount of seals or decorative fobs attached at the top.

[Incroyable]

Mr.Barrymore's chain seems of the Albert variety


This is an example of the fob watch as aforementioned although this is rather early in the 19th century


I understand that the longish watch chains in platinum with the pocket watch suspended in the trouser was popular in the 30s until the 40s.


A bit of period humor. But note the watch chain and its mass of fobs.

[Incroyable]

Here is the Marquis De San Giuliano.

[alden]

RWS

A young and very elegant young friend of mine is fond of saying that good taste is the mirror image of common sense. Your description of the rationale of leaving one’s wristwatch at home in formal occasions is a perfect example.

We also cut besom pockets in Dinner Jackets as opposed to flapped ones. It is not just to improve the line of the coat. Flapped pockets are practical tools. When one is engaged in the pursuit of pleasure, there is no need to be practical. One needs to be practical at work, not at play. If you are invited to dinner, you are not expected to paint the house, maybe the wagon, but not the house.

[Concordia]

Indeed, much of dinner dress is assembled in pursuit of an illusion. In this illusion, buttons are always made of precious stones and metals, shirts are made entirely of exotic and impractical cloths, gentlemen wear extravagant sashes knotted about their waists, and shoes are always perfectly shined. The intrusions of civilian clothing--or of practical gestures like removing one's jacket, or nervously checking the time-- on this fantasy are jarring in the extreme.