Detachable collars.

[Incroyable]

Dear all,

I am fairly new here, however I am a veteran per se at other fora.

That being stated I am posting since I am curious if any of the denizens have the habit of wearing detachable stiff collars with their suits or eveningwear.

Of course, if one wears a wing collar it has to be of a detachable variety.

Thank you.

[AlexanderKabbaz]

Many clients wear the occasional detachable collar. Most prefer time-saving attached in this fast-paced world.
Would that all wing collars were detachable. It is so much more pleasurable to make them properly. Alas, such is no longer the case.

[Incroyable]

Many clients wear the occasional detachable collar. Most prefer time-saving attached in this fast-paced world.
Would that all wing collars were detachable. It is so much more pleasurable to make them properly. Alas, such is no longer the case.

I understand, however in certain cases nothing can compare with a stiff collar in terms of structural elegance.

It seems to me the only case would be either vintage or perhaps buying them from the English shops that now cater to the legal trade.

Do you manufacture a collar?

[TVD]

I always wear stiff collars with evening dress, a very tall, wing collar for white tie and cut-away normal one for black tie (most shirtmakers retail it as Cameron). Shirts with semi-stiff marcella fronts.

I have considered silk dress shirts with attached collars, but somehow think the look would only excell in a warm climate.

I occasionally wear a stiff cutaway collar with blue business shirts. Many years ago I had quite a few shirts made with white attached collars, but have slowly come to the persuasion that this looks much better with a proper detached starched collar.

It is an expensive preference due to the cost of laundering the collars. The other criticism, that it is difficult to tie one's tie when using a stiff collar I find unfounded and it demonstrates a lack of training. The first few times, years ago, were excrutiatingly difficult. These days I can do it in 30 seconds, even after a long night, two hours sleep and with a raging hangover. The stiff collar also has the advantage of keeping one's head upright.

[Mark Seitelman]

I have a shirt on order with a separate collar. I'll see how it goes.

[AnthonyJordan]

I tend to only wear stiff detachable collars with morning suits or evening wear. I usually prefer semi-cutaway turndowns for the day (wing collars for the evening, of course). I was fortunate to obtain a few vintage 2" high wing collars recently and these are now my preferred style as against the ubiquitous 1 3/4". Collars of this style can be obtained new from New and Lingwood or (rather more cheaply) from Ede and Ravenscroft. Both offer online ordering.

For daytime wear I use attached collars most days but I am building up my collection of tunic shirts slowly so that I can move over to them as my attached collar shirts wear out. With my tunic shirts I now wear soft detachable collars. These are constructed like a normal attached collar, taking bones for stiffness, and have the advantage over the stiff variety in that they can easily be home laundered. I find that the cost of having stiff collars laundered (about £3 per collar or more) is enough to put me off wearing them on a daily basis. I am also still at the stage of finding tying a tie under a stiff turndown collar difficult, although TVD gives me hope that I may grow out of this!

Anthony.

[Pryor]

I am certainly intrigued by the thought of commissioning detachable collars for my evening shirts. Sadly, I find myself stymied here in the Far East, where the tailors that I have located to date are not familiar with the construction of such a collar. Are there web resources available that detail how one would go about creating a detachable wing-collar, and a shirt to match? If not, I fear that I may be forced to rely on the rather pedestrian attached collar until I make my triumphant return to parts-West.

[AnthonyJordan]

I am certainly intrigued by the thought of commissioning detachable collars for my evening shirts. Sadly, I find myself stymied here in the Far East, where the tailors that I have located to date are not familiar with the construction of such a collar. Are there web resources available that detail how one would go about creating a detachable wing-collar, and a shirt to match? If not, I fear that I may be forced to rely on the rather pedestrian attached collar until I make my triumphant return to parts-West.

I do not know of such a resource, unfortunately. In terms of makers in the Far East, I have heard good things of shirts made by Jantzen tailors of Hong Kong and have e-mailed them twice to ask if they are able to make tunic shirts, with or without matching collars, so far without success.

Anthony.

[Concordia]

I am certainly intrigued by the thought of commissioning detachable collars for my evening shirts. Sadly, I find myself stymied here in the Far East, where the tailors that I have located to date are not familiar with the construction of such a collar. Are there web resources available that detail how one would go about creating a detachable wing-collar, and a shirt to match? If not, I fear that I may be forced to rely on the rather pedestrian attached collar until I make my triumphant return to parts-West.

You could always get one on-line at, say, New&Lingwood and then have your local shop copy the construction.

[westender]

You might want to look to India, I believe they are still used and manufactured there according to a tailor friend of mine.

[Rudolf]

I also enjoy wearing stiff deatchable collars for evening wear, especially with a stiff marcella dress shirt and proper dress studs (white or black). Frist, I bought the detachable wing collars at Budd's, Piccadilly Arcade, afterwards I turned to the legal suppliers (try Stanley Ley and their expertise on Holborn).
However, due to my long neck I started collecting any buying vintage collars which are much more interesting in terms of the 'wing' shape, height and opening angle (not every wing collar is elegant by nature). My favourite is a 'Summit' of 2 1/8'' height.

For day wear, I find the detachables too difficult for fastening a tie properly (think of the modern silk ties and their linings), though encouraged by TVD I equally should start practising.
The next project will be to ask Budd's to make me a very steep turn-down collar with rounded edges (Edwardian type). I have three shirts of their make with an ordinary attached collar of this kind, but it does not stay at the right angle, so I will probably need a detachable (so the shirtmaker was suggesting).

[TVD]

Reading all those reports about trouble tying ties around stiff collars, a few practical observations:

- check you have all the material you need (more below). Not all collars arrive from the laundry in a state fit to be worn. Now is the time to find out, not later.

- work as closely to the collar as possible (the sloppy public schoolboy routine of tying your knot somewhere on your breastbone and then tighten it will not work, as it is difficult to slide the tie around your neck and adjust its positioning, i.e. that left / right wriggle)

- know your tie and its measurements, so that as little final adjustment as possible is needed (all ties are different)

- fasten the rear stud first, leave the front open. Then place the tie in its correct position (see above) into the collar at the back, while it is slightly open at the front. As you close the collar its sides tighten and grip the tie all round. Push the tie inside the collar with your thumbs moving from back to front as you are closing it. No tie should be visible underneath (this is a struggle with some lower collars and wide modern ties - test this upfront).

- I prefer moveable rear (short) studs, but the bulbous fixed variety for the front. Less fiddly.

- do not attempt the impossible: stiff collars will not bend at the edge, you have only as much tie space at your disposal as you can see. Do not attempt to fit a full Windsor on a thick woven tie into it! The knot has to fit snugly into the space, smaller knots are easier, so are symetrical ones.

- some stiff collars (especially some vintage varieties) are rather tall, but have very little tie space. The stud is placed towards their bottom edge. With these, the knot was never meant to be placed at the upper edge, but further down, covering the stud. Have a look at vintage photographs. To attempt anything else is physically impossible. The stiff collar will stay in place without the help of a tie, unlige many a modern soft collar that needs tightening up.

- start with thin ties that slide easily. These are more forgiving.

- beware of fragile woven ties. The starched edges of the collar can be rather sharp and pull the woven silk threads.

Finally, leave plenty of time, do not start when you are late for the all important first date trying to impress the girl you want to become your wife. Always, and I mean ALWAYS, have a spare collar and a spare tie. Those edges have a propensity to tear cuticles or restart the tiny bleed from a shaving rash on your neck, or get wrecked by that speck of dirt you inadvertedly touched in some unexpected place.

The process is not daunting, just requires some thought and preparation at first. Like making a sauce mayonaise at home. Quite easy, but break the rules and you WILL come unstuck.