Reasonable timescales for bespoke?

[Julian]

I'm having my first ever becpoke commission (a sports jacket) made up by a well known and I believe well regarded off-row London tailor. I went into this realising that the process can be slow but I'm wondering at what point I should start to consider the service unusually poor.

I went in to select the cloth (a common Porter & Harding so nothing difficult to source) and to be measured up in late July. They warned me that they were busy and that it would probably be 5 or 6 weeks until my basted fitting and that they would call me. I didn't want to be overly pushy so I left it until 7 weeks after the measurements before calling to check on progress and they told me that they would have it ready the following week. I went in on the Tuesday of the next week (7.5 weeks after the order was placed) for my basted fitting; this was in late September. At the basted fitting they told me that the next fitting would probably be in 3 weeks and that they would call me. It is now 5 weeks and a day after the basted fitting and I still haven't heard anything. Tomorrow will be exactly 13 weeks after I first placed my order and I haven't even had the second fitting.

I'm not in a huge hurry now since my jacket is intended for spring, autumn and chilly summer day wear and I've missed this year's wearing season so when my jacket finally arrives it will probably spend the first 4 or 5 months of its life on a hanger in my wardrobe. I'm curious however as to whether this is par for the course and whether experienced bespeakers find it necessary and appropriate to preempt these issues by chasing up progress more promptly than I have done.

- Julian

[Cooked]

Well I'm relatively new to the bespoke process myself, but the timescale you describe doesn't sound too bad, given they warned you at the start of possible delay. I think tailors, like builders, suffer from incurable optimism when it comes to how long a job will take. I have tried three different tailors so far and it seems fairly routine for fittings to be a week or two later than expected at the best of times.

[DFR]

It is not unusual but tailors will give priority to those that demand it. So a new client who sits quietly to await his pleasure will have to do so at the tailor's convenience. Up to you whether you stamp your feet - I would.

[Julian]

Thanks both of you.

DFR - I did wonder if this was a case of the squeaky wheel getting the oil and your comments seem to bear this out. I think I'll give them a gentle nudge now. Chasing status two weeks after a fitting estimate has passed doesn't seem unreasonable.

Cooked - I might not have much experience of bespoke but I have all too much experience of builders. Your comparison seems a good one; it bought a wry smile to my face.

For the future, in cases where I do want to get something within a reasonably predictable timescale, it sounds as if it would be a good idea to routinely enquire about progress a week or two after any given estimate for a fitting has passed.

- Julian

[Julian]

Ironically I just got the call to say that my jacket is ready for the next fitting. That's not too bad really; it's reassuring that they did call without me needing to chase them. This is all part of my learning about the process and setting realistic expectations.

- Julian

[tteplitzmd]

Timeliness or lack of seems to be endemic amongst London makers. I've come to the conclusion it depends on how important you are to them.
Sad but true. It is ultimately a commercial transaction, despite what others may say about the "relationship." If you want a friend, as Pres. Truman said, get a dog.

[uppercase]

Timeliness or lack of seems to be endemic amongst London makers. I've come to the conclusion it depends on how important you are to them.
Sad but true. It is ultimately a commercial transaction, despite what others may say about the "relationship." If you want a friend, as Pres. Truman said, get a dog.

Good one!

[DFR]

Timeliness or lack of seems to be endemic amongst London makers. I've come to the conclusion it depends on how important you are to them.
Sad but true. It is ultimately a commercial transaction, despite what others may say about the "relationship." If you want a friend, as Pres. Truman said, get a dog.

Entirely correct but symptomatic of life in general in the 21st century.

[Costi]

If you want a friend, as Pres. Truman said, get a dog.

"If you want a friend, tame me" said the (wild) Fox to the Little Prince.
Taming one another is an art... it takes time, patience and a sincere desire to succeed. If we treat each other in terms of supply and demand, then this is all we are to each other. If we can't get over a disappointment, we will never tame or be tamed. It doesn't happen overnight. There is the timescale of having a suit made, but there is also the greater timescale of building a relationship between tailor and customer, of taming one another. If the greater timescale evolves satisfactorily, don't let a minor event spoil it.

[tteplitzmd]

[quote][/quote]

I am not inclined to subsidize a learning curve or business relationship. Not at the prices charged by many bespoke merchants.
Only a fool would throw good money after bad in such a situation.

[hectorm]

There is the timescale of having a suit made, but there is also the greater timescale of building a relationship between tailor and customer, of taming one another. If the greater timescale evolves satisfactorily, don't let a minor event spoil it.

Very wise words indeed. And not only do they apply to a sartorial relationship.
After 41 years since I had my first bespoke suit with my father's tailor I have learnt to forgive this trade minor inconveniences, like short delays or tailor stubbornness, for the sake of a greater good (in this case a glorious garment worn with pride and pleasure for many years to come).

[Costi]

Thank you, hectorn! I think you have won the war, even though you may have let yourself tactically defeated on a few battles
I think we often have this curious sense of the worth of others' work: there is our appreciation of value, there is that of the person actually doing the work (quite different!), there is the "market" value (set by demand and supply). When I think work is good, I can be convinced to pay almost any price. When work is bad, I feel robbed even if I am asked for a penny.
When I pay for a good suit with which I am satisfied, am I really PAYING for it? Not for the amount, but for the quality of work that went into it? For the decades of experience it took to get there? For the special knowledge and talent that the guy next door who applies himself at the same trade is unable to deliver, even though the price is the same? I prefer to think a good craftsman is hugely subsidizing my appetite for feeling good in my clothes (I would be unable to provide this for myself anyway), while I modestly subsidize his daily needs. I get very tangible long-term satisfaction, while he only gets some money - and who knows how he will spend it? Maybe he gets home that day only to discover a hole in his roof and there goes his hard-earned money... Money is no guarantee of happiness, but a good suit can well be! The greater value is with me, in the suit, not with the tailor, in his fee. So who is subsidizing whom really?
As for the learning curve, that is inherent to bespoke, so without without subsidizing it there can never be much satisfaction. And even that is not a subsidy, it is an investment.

[tteplitzmd]

Poor outcomes are investments without returns in bespoke.

[Costi]

We can't expect (good) return on ALL our investments. If we don't get past the first (burnt) pancake, we'll never get to the good stuff. Moreover, if you know a tailor who delivered a substandard item to you CAN do better, the only way to give SOME value to the money you already spent is to make a second try, making sure both customer and craftsman have learnt from the mistakes. We know we are not always only as good as our latest post, court case, operation or movie, so why should tailors only be considered as good as their latest coat?

[davidhuh]

We know we are not always only as good as our latest post, court case, operation or movie, so why should tailors only be considered as good as their latest coat?

Gentlemen,

I agree with Costi. Tailors are human beings, not machines. So they will make mistakes, be inconsistent - as we are all.

It takes a little bit of good will on both sides to overcome such situations, like in a good relationship. And sometimes, you will decide to split. Is it helpful for anybody to make a fuss about it for too long? I do not think so

cheers, david