Waistcoat style

"The brute covers himself, the rich man and the fop adorn themselves, the elegant man dresses!"

-Honore de Balzac

davidhuh
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Thu Oct 06, 2011 8:57 pm

uppercase wrote: I'm glad to learn that 6 is Orthodox and 5 kosher or glatt kosher!

It's very important to get these matters straight, after all.
Dear Uppercase,

actually, the shul is not that strict, and leaves desired room for interpretation - a treif is not so much the result of getting the number of buttons wrong.

Without opening another Hillel and Shammai debate :D - there has been a thread a while ago, where Michael Alden posted a nice picture with different waistcoat styles: http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... sts#p43904

cheers, David
uppercase
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Thu Oct 06, 2011 11:35 pm

dopey wrote:
uppercase wrote:
dopey wrote:. . .

What is a postboy vest? I thought that was a cap...?
It is cut a bit longer and has a waist seam. I think there are some pictures of it in my long-ago Phitwell suit thread. I am afraid to look myself because it may show that I cannot count or that I have gone senile.
More importantly, can you still fit in it?
DD MacDonald
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Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:46 pm

A waistcoat is a great idea, I don't always wear one but they add a lot of versatility to a garment. I favor lapels on the waistcoat, they add a finish when the jacket isn't worn. Waistcoats without lapels look fine under a coat but miss something when the coat is off.

Edwin Deboise at Steed cuts a six button waistcoat with four welted pockets and two small pleats vertically between the pockets on either side to give it some shape across the waist. The subtle pleats echo the larger pleats of the trousers that fall away below the waistcoats points, extending the vertical line. Six true buttons and holes in a vertical line, none of this falsity of a button placed on the cutaway. Leaving the lowest button unfastened helps the waistcoat open a touch when seated and doesn't present much affectation.

The styling of the lapels is perhaps the most interesting choice, with the cloth's pattern providing the best direction on which way to go. Lapels can be "pasted on" to follow the cloth's pattern which is a good approach for window panes and plaids. They can also be made in two pieces a side echoing the pattern of the lapel and collar of the coat. Here, they are "turned" over like the lapels of the coat so that the pattern direction changes or pasted on to match the background pattern. I favor the former approach of contrasting the pattern for stripes and plains.

A last decision relates to the construction of the blade of the lapel if the pattern direction is changed, whether it is grown out of the body of the waistcoat (turned from its backing) or attached as a separate piece. Having the lapel truly turned from the body of the waistcoat, like the coat, seems the purest approach but it adds an additional layer of cloth and I like the lapel on the waistcoat to be truly flat turned as opposed to exhibiting the roll that we covet on the coat. However, both approaches have merits and my advice is would be to ask your tailor for his or her approach.

Backings deserve discussion as well. My waistcoats are all backed with the same bemberg or emerzine as the related coat. I have no attraction to a cloth backing, thinking that it would be very hot, stiff and bulky. On the subject of color, the waistcoat worn without the coat features the lining and suggests a quieter rather than a louder lining. The issue is really about coordinating with shirts and ties. The wonderful periwinkle color that is fun under your light gray flannel can become more problematic when the coat is off and the periwinkle is on display. The problem is not with the color per se, more the limiting nature of adding a color that now must be accommodated when picking shirts and ties. Like a lot of decisions in wardrobe, look to variations in tone and texture as opposed to wholesale changes in color. Contrast is a critical point of dressing but it seems best realized through the largest elements, the cloth, or the smaller details of shirt and tie.

So lots of choices, get the waistcoat.
DFR
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Mon Oct 10, 2011 9:08 am

uppercase wrote:
dopey wrote:
uppercase wrote:I have just counted the number of bottons on my vests: there are only 5!

Have I been shortchanged? Or are 5 buttons the classic configuration and not 6 on a single breasted vest?
Classic lounge suit waistcoat is six buttons, with the bottom one placed so as not to work. Sportier vests have other configurations, including five, all working - I think my postboy vest is like that, with the bottom buttonhole really a seam opening.
So is my 5 button sportscoat vest still kosher?
Six is better but you will not be excommunicated for five - even if Desmond Merrion cut it!
joey stapleton
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Wed Oct 26, 2011 12:54 pm

I wear 5 button waistcoats without a lapel. This is just what I prefer - it is all down to individual choice really. May I congatulate you on wearing a waistcoat - I have always loved them and it's good there has been a bit of a revival in recent years.
Gruto

Wed Oct 26, 2011 6:22 pm

Flipping through old English fashion plates from the beginning of the 20th Century, I realised just how elegant a db waistcoat with a sb jacket can look. I don't order waistcoats with my suits, but if I do it one day, I will be tempted to go for the db waistcoat. I mean, if you are ready for a waistcoat nowadays, why not the chic model?
joey stapleton
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Fri Oct 28, 2011 5:43 pm

Gruto wrote:Flipping through old English fashion plates from the beginning of the 20th Century, I realised just how elegant a db waistcoat with a sb jacket can look. I don't order waistcoats with my suits, but if I do it one day, I will be tempted to go for the db waistcoat. I mean, if you are ready for a waistcoat nowadays, why not the chic model?
I've never liked db jackets but db waistcoats can look very good.
dopey
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Wed Nov 02, 2011 5:06 pm

so . . . I am wearing a Davies suit today and noticed that the waistcoat is decidedly heterodox - six working buttons and the seventh placed on the curve of the point. It is not the first time I have worn this suit, so you can tell how attentive I am not.
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