The first serious step in bespoke

[uppercase]

Don't write off the London shirtmakers.

You may be surprised to learn that even the highly commercial Turnbull can make a good bespoke shirt: they made me a few very nice shirts. Better than most, I would say. And the service was excellent, pleasant, congenial plus, when finished, you're in the middle of the cigarshops, bars, hatters, gunshops and restaurants of London to enjoy yourself further. The whorehouses can't be far away either....

As a bonus, I believe that David Gale has moved to Turnbulls. He made me excellent shirts while at Dunhills, across the street from T&A. A bit of a character but that's what we like. Still a very knowledgeable and talented shirtmaker with a strong point of view.

I've also gone the MTM shirt route in a previous life with mixed results.

Kiton made me one of the finest shirts I have straight off the bat, first go. Superb.
Zegna did a workmanlike job. Average.
Borrelli was dismal...but then again, so have been the results of any number of bespoke shirtmakers I've used.

So, the results are really all over the place. Surprisingly, MTM shirts have generally been more expensive than full bespoke.

My advice: go to a bespoke shirtmaker, not MTM, have 1 shirt made at a time, adjust, readjust. Pick the right weight shirting. Choose the right collar, body and cuff style for your face and physique. Try on the shirt while wearing your coat. Be patient. Assess the results after 3 shirts. Stick with the shirtmaker who does right by you.

Now you're an bespoke expert and can complain about your shirtmaker!

[Costi]

Now you're an bespoke expert and can complain about your shirtmaker!

I would say this is part of the fun for many.

[Rowly]

uppercase wrote:
Now you're an bespoke expert and can complain about your shirtmaker!

Don't get shirty, Bertie

[Scot]

In the end it is the service and the result that counts, albeit there is a strong sense of satisfaction in helping preserve the skills involved.

Scot, it is the result that counts. It does not matter how you get there, it matters that you get there. It would be wrong to paint MTM with a too broad brush. There are probably many makers who get things very right. But a large majority of MTM shirts I have seen are grossly unfair facsimiles and do not do justice to the client or the trade. If one can't the wrist of a shirt properly measured and buttoned so the sleeve is not in constant movement up and down the arm, one should be in some other kind of business. Buyer beware, that is the message.

Michael

Michael, it was not my intention to defend MTM shirtmakers, although, as you say, some may do a perfectly good job. In my opinion what I have had from two London shirtmakers is bespoke, certainly by tailoring standards, and I am very happy with the results. Some people appear to hold shirtmakers to very rarified standards indeed, although I am not entirely sure what they are and, it seems, they are almost impossible to find. For those of us unable to roam the world in search of the last few remaining practitioners of true bespoke shirtmaking, whatever that may be, Uppercase gives very good advice, principally, "don't write off the London shirtmakers"!

[alden]

For those of us unable to roam the world in search of the last few remaining practitioners of true bespoke shirtmaking, whatever that may be…

Ha great point. Yes, I was talking to another old timer the other day and he suggested that a good many men “cannot possibly miss the things they never knew” in terms of the old traditional bespoke crafts and fabrics that are virtually extinct today. There is probably no sense talking about them anymore as nostalgia just winds up confusing people.

If you want to read about how shirts were made LL member Pierre Duboin’s blog ("The True Bespoke Shirt") is a great place to begin.

http://lavraiechemisesurmesure.blogspot.com/

There are a handful of “traditional” bespoke shirt makers in Italy these days, a few in Spain and the Charvet “bespoke” service is another option. That’s about it. So Uppercase’s admonition to give the Londoners a try is a good piece of advice.

Some people appear to hold shirtmakers to very rarified standards indeed

I do not consider getting the sleeve length and the wrist measure right a rarefied standard. Those are the basic of basics.

Cheers

Michael

PS If the bespoke gods would grant this poor supplicant one wish, it would be for Pierre Duboin to make shirts again.

[bond_and_beyond]

My advice: go to a bespoke shirtmaker, not MTM, have 1 shirt made at a time, adjust, readjust. Pick the right weight shirting. Choose the right collar, body and cuff style for your face and physique. Try on the shirt while wearing your coat. Be patient. Assess the results after 3 shirts. Stick with the shirtmaker who does right by you.

Now you're an bespoke expert and can complain about your shirtmaker!

I've gone the bespoke route with T&A and with them at least you can do 1 shirt at a time till you get it right, even though they have a six shirt minimum order. They made me 5 sample shirts before they and I were happy. I have tricky shoulders and they kept moving the shoulder panels about on shirt after shirt, and by shirt 5 they finally got it right (and I got a chance to try out several different collar styles on the different shirts, and still only paying for the original test shirt). So now, two years later, I am waiting for my first six "completed" shirts to be shipped.

S

[davidhuh]

So now, two years later, I am waiting for my first six "completed" shirts to be shipped.

S

Dear Bond and Beyond,

you are a very patient customer congratulations, such persistence pays out.

cheers, David

[bond_and_beyond]

So now, two years later, I am waiting for my first six "completed" shirts to be shipped.

S

Dear Bond and Beyond,

you are a very patient customer congratulations, such persistence pays out.

cheers, David

David,

I must also note that I made the initial commission while I was still a student, so it is no disadvantage that the shirts and the bill come after I have started working. This way I can pay T&A without having to forego any meals

S

[YoungLawyer]

So was that an actual recommendation for Budd for rtw shirts?

[davidhuh]

I must also note that I made the initial commission while I was still a student, so it is no disadvantage that the shirts and the bill come after I have started working. This way I can pay T&A without having to forego any meals

S

Dear Bond and Beyond,

- when you think about it carefully and weigh all things up, going bespoke is a matter of economy. No sacrifice on good food of course, you got that right

cheers, david

[uppercase]

Now you're an bespoke expert and can complain about your shirtmaker!

I would say this is part of the fun for many.

It is uniquely satisfying to complain about the luxuries in life which we are fortunate to enjoy.

It is a club after all, a club of louche london loungers, complainers all united.

[bond_and_beyond]

- when you think about it carefully and weigh all things up, going bespoke is a matter of economy. No sacrifice on good food of course, you got that right

cheers, david

Indeed you are right. I like to think that I am saving money by visiting the tailor, think of all the RTW suits down the line I don't need to buy

[bond_and_beyond]

[

The process for bespoke shirt and bespoke suits is the same. Choose tailor, choose cloth, choose details, get fitted, adjust, re-adjust and adjust again. The difference however is $5,000. Bespoke shirts are where to begin. The cost of entry is reasonable.

Honestly, first get a perfect bespoke shirt made before moving on to bespoke suits. You'll learn the process, make all of the mistakes, discover your style, and learn whether bespoke is for you or not.

But why not also start with a less expensive tailor? One does not have to start with the Row. In London there are several tailors offering full bespoke for less than GBP 1000. I use Graham Browne and I'm quite happy with both the results and service thus far. It lets me learn about the bespoke process without landing me in bankruptcy court, and the suits are the best I've ever owned (I would dare say that the suits are better than most if not all RTW currently available, certainly at least when it comes to fit, if not hand finishing).

S

[davidhuh]

But why not also start with a less expensive tailor? One does not have to start with the Row. In London there are several tailors offering full bespoke for less than GBP 1000.
S

Dear Bond and Beyond,

your approach is absolutely reasonable and justified in my eyes. I hear good things about Graham Browne, most importantly that he is very honest about his product. I guess you will feel it when you want to move somewhere else.

cheers, David

[uppercase]

[

The process for bespoke shirt and bespoke suits is the same. Choose tailor, choose cloth, choose details, get fitted, adjust, re-adjust and adjust again. The difference however is $5,000. Bespoke shirts are where to begin. The cost of entry is reasonable.

Honestly, first get a perfect bespoke shirt made before moving on to bespoke suits. You'll learn the process, make all of the mistakes, discover your style, and learn whether bespoke is for you or not.

But why not also start with a less expensive tailor? One does not have to start with the Row. In London there are several tailors offering full bespoke for less than GBP 1000. I use Graham Browne and I'm quite happy with both the results and service thus far. It lets me learn about the bespoke process without landing me in bankruptcy court, and the suits are the best I've ever owned (I would dare say that the suits are better than most if not all RTW currently available, certainly at least when it comes to fit, if not hand finishing).

S

This too is a reasonable approach though I don't understand why in the world you would want to move to Savile Row if you are satisfied with your existing tailor?

I place no stock in high end addresses, big name tailors, panelled fitting rooms, nor exorbitant pricing: they won't guarantee you a good result. You can take my word on that.

Local tailors need not be a stepping stone to the big names.

Indeed, my ideal would be to find a provincial Italian tailor who would suit me beautifully while I pleasantly occupy myself elsewhere with choosing the perfect local red wine to accompany my bistecca fiorentina. To be followed by purple figs and a super espresso and a visit later in the early evening, after a restorative siesta, to my tailor to check on progress.

What is the purpose of bespoke other than to enhance the important experiences in life? Otherwise, they are just rags.

Don't you think that there are wonderful tailors in Greece, Turkey, India, Lebanon, Bulgaria, Hongkong? There are. And many other addresses. Members here know secret tailors. The world is full of wonderful tailors, modest tailors, with modest prices and a real sense of artisanship.

One of the most pleasant bespoke experiences I had was visiting Loris in the suburbs of Florence and, though I didn't have a suit made, I could just tell from the time spent with him and trying on his coats that the workmanship, the styling, the sense of pride was something from another era completely, a rare experience, so far from what commercial tailors provide today. These special artisans are just much less accessible to us than are the tailors on SR and Via Montenapoleone.

But they represent true bespoke luxury.

A toast to Graham Browne!