Suggestions (mostly re cloth) sought for casual trousers

[Julian]

As part of my ongoing quest to smarten up my casual wear I'm turning my attention to trousers with a view to moving away from my current habit of almost always wearing chinos. My motivation is that by having trousers made I can choose materials that drape better than chino cotton and can choose colour more precisely, plus I get the possibility of a better fit (although I've never felt unhappy with the fit on my chinos). Inevitably I now have a few questions, some of them rather basic.

Regarding cloth, I need some help to "calibrate my compass" as far as cloth weights for trousers is concerned. I've begun to get a feel as to what weights of material to look at for summer jackets, all season jackets, etc but when it comes to trousers I don't really have a starting point. If I'm initially going for a pretty straightforward flannel then what sort of weight should I be looking at to make something that wears similarly to the chinos that I currently wear (in terms of how warm they are in winter and how cool in spring/autumn). I tend to wear linen in the height of summer so light weight cloth isn't a concern here. I should say that I live in London (UK) so not a particularly extreme climate and the chinos that I wear are the regular sort of stuff that one would find in Gap, Levis Dockers, etc.

If I was to take advantage of the greater range of cloth available to me and decide to not only have all-weather trousers made up but to also have some heavier cold weather pairs made then what would be an appropriate step up for a heavier weight winter cloth?

Finally on cloth, one thing that I want to be sure of is that I don't end up looking as if I'm wearing orphaned suit trousers and I assume that I need to create a more casual appearance primarily through use of softer textures rather than finely woven suiting cloth. Can anyone recommend any specific cloths as good starting points for casual trousers. I'll be looking for plain colours.

Since these trousers are intended to be one step up from chinos I'm not sure that I can justify paying the £350+ that the tailor I currently use for jackets would charge so my current thinking is to go made-to-measure, I hope that you other forum members will forgive me for stretching the definition of bespoke in order to shoehorn my post into this forum although for trousers I'm wondering if the difference is as significant as it is with jackets.

I popped into my local tailor who advertises a MTM service but they said that they do create a unique paper pattern for each customer and manufacturing is not shipped off to some factory overseas but is done by UK outworkers. The difference seems to be that there is no basted fitting but it seems to me that the basted fitting is of far more significance for a jacket and, even there, some very well known tailors such as A&S tend to skip the basted fitting even for suits. I was in a bit of a hurry so I didn't have time to pick into the details with my local tailor but she was quite careful to position the service as being MTM and not bespoke(*) and I'm left wondering, particularly with respect to trousers, as to how and where one draws the dividing line between the two.

- Julian

(*) Which is marked contrast to one well known highstreet name whose shop I went into to ask about their MTM service. The person in front of me was completing their order for a suit and the sales assistant was very insistent on a couple of occassions in the converstation that it was a full bespoke service whereas it was pretty clear to me that, since the garment comes back for the first (and ideally only) fitting fully finished, that it was a MTM service where measurements are sent off to a factory as permutations for an existing pattern.

[Concordia]

12oz is a decent year-round weight for trousers-- check the Hardy's books for gabardines and more rustic twills. Bedford cord is a nice option even if there isn't much color selection.

Minnis, Lesser and others will have 11ish ounce worsted flannels that will hold up reasonably well.

For the dead of winter, the heaviest wide-wale corduroy gives much pleasure, and you can go as heavy as you dare in flannels. Moleskin is another obviously casual cotton that is pleasing to wear.

And for linen, the W. Bill book is fantastic.

[andreyb]

Finally on cloth, one thing that I want to be sure of is that I don't end up looking as if I'm wearing orphaned suit trousers and I assume that I need to create a more casual appearance primarily through use of softer textures rather than finely woven suiting cloth. Can anyone recommend any specific cloths as good starting points for casual trousers. I'll be looking for plain colours.

I asked similar question myself, and received some excellent advice in this thread.

Andrey

[Julian]

I asked similar question myself, and received some excellent advice in this thread.

Thank you. That is a great help.

12oz is a decent year-round weight for trousers ... <SNIP> ... Minnis, Lesser and others will have 11ish ounce worsted flannels that will hold up reasonably well. ...

Thanks. All of the advice in your post was useful but based on what you said about weight, the discussions in the other thread that Andrey referenced, and wanting to stay well within the beaten track for my first commission I am leaning towards the 12-13oz (340-370g) weight from the Minnis flannel collection, probably specifically the 0329. When you say "will hold up reasonably well" are you referring to the wear characteristics? Is this an implication that flannel can be slightly fragile and, if so, then should I be overly concerned or consider going up the weight range for durability reasons? I suppose that "hold up reasonably well" could alternatively be refering to the ability to provide sufficient warmth during the colder winter months.

The Minnis flannel collection has a good selection of weights and the next step up is 14-14.5oz so if durability is an issue that can be resolved by going heavier then I don't really have a pressing need for a year-round weight since I tend to switch to linen for the warmer summer days so perhaps the 14-14.5oz (and specifically the 0301 might be a better initial choice. Also, if the comment was refering to winter performance then again an increase in weight might be appropriate.

The above was a bit of a "thinking aloud" moment but maybe exposing my ramblings will shed additional light on my areas of confusion. I think that, subject to durability issues, I'm settled on the book (Minnis flannel) but I'm still wrestling a bit with the weight, probably due to my lack of understanding of the basic properties of the material. What are the pros and cons of what seems to be the remaining choice standing between me and a final decision, namely the 11-12oz or the 14-14.5oz weight?

- Julian

[Slewfoot]

Julian,

You may want to see if your tailor has access to fabrics from Brisbane Moss. They have a stellar selection of corduroys, linens and cottons for a variety of trousers. Very sturdy stuff and excellent value. Good luck and happy hunting!

[Concordia]

I asked similar question myself, and received some excellent advice in this thread.

Thank you. That is a great help.

12oz is a decent year-round weight for trousers ... <SNIP> ... Minnis, Lesser and others will have 11ish ounce worsted flannels that will hold up reasonably well. ...

Thanks. All of the advice in your post was useful but based on what you said about weight, the discussions in the other thread that Andrey referenced, and wanting to stay well within the beaten track for my first commission I am leaning towards the 12-13oz (340-370g) weight from the Minnis flannel collection, probably specifically the 0329. When you say "will hold up reasonably well" are you referring to the wear characteristics? Is this an implication that flannel can be slightly fragile and, if so, then should I be overly concerned or consider going up the weight range for durability reasons? I suppose that "hold up reasonably well" could alternatively be refering to the ability to provide sufficient warmth during the colder winter months.

The Minnis flannel collection has a good selection of weights and the next step up is 14-14.5oz so if durability is an issue that can be resolved by going heavier then I don't really have a pressing need for a year-round weight since I tend to switch to linen for the warmer summer days so perhaps the 14-14.5oz (and specifically the 0301 might be a better initial choice. Also, if the comment was refering to winter performance then again an increase in weight might be appropriate.

The above was a bit of a "thinking aloud" moment but maybe exposing my ramblings will shed additional light on my areas of confusion. I think that, subject to durability issues, I'm settled on the book (Minnis flannel) but I'm still wrestling a bit with the weight, probably due to my lack of understanding of the basic properties of the material. What are the pros and cons of what seems to be the remaining choice standing between me and a final decision, namely the 11-12oz or the 14-14.5oz weight?

- Julian

I was thinking mostly about their ability to be worn without looking flabby or baggy after a few hours. Apart from their genuine virtues, flannels don't always hold their shape as well as worsteds. Then there's the durability question, but for many people the distinction between 5 years' longevity and 15 is somewhat academic.