I came across this site a few weeks ago and have enjoyed reading the interesting topics, thoughts and views of the many contributors - it seems an excellent place for discussion.
I'm completely new to bespoke, having previousely bought off the peg, or Gieves and Hawkes made to measure.......... My work is such that suits are rarely required, but lately I've been hankering after smartening up my image, the treat of having a suit made seems a good place to start.
I've been looking at the various posts and have done a bit of alternative research - I've tentatively thought about using either Jonathan Quearney, Steven Hitchcock or William Westmancott. I wondered if anyone has used any of these guys recently or has an opinion or alternative suggestion? Also, what fabric and colour to choose for good all round usage. I like traditional tailoring, but maybe with a modern twist. I know this is hotly debated, but I've tended to have not quite the high trouser rise that many people seem to prefer, but I'm open to suggestion.
Sorry to have so many questions, but I do want this first step into the bespoke market to be a success.
New to Bespoke
Quearney is surely just MTM (although said to be good at it) or at least bottom bespoke and Westmancott became bankrupt some while back and has not obviously re-entered the trade.
Hitchcock can be recommended or you might want to try the Doyen of Saville Row, Andrew Ramroop at Maurice Sedwell.
trouser rise is a matter for you. I agree that it is the preferable manner and I like it but I would not feel slavishly bound to it if inappropriate where you are likely to wear such a suit - eg modern open plan air conditioned offices where the suit coat is only worn occasionally.
Colours are again for you but charcoal and midnight blues are workmanlike in many circumstances but for more informal use you might prefer a lighter grey. Use of coloured linings can be a good idea to reduce the apparent formality of a suit with a modern twist.
Always remember that the suit is for you and that you do not have to tick boxes simply to be judged here.
Hitchcock can be recommended or you might want to try the Doyen of Saville Row, Andrew Ramroop at Maurice Sedwell.
trouser rise is a matter for you. I agree that it is the preferable manner and I like it but I would not feel slavishly bound to it if inappropriate where you are likely to wear such a suit - eg modern open plan air conditioned offices where the suit coat is only worn occasionally.
Colours are again for you but charcoal and midnight blues are workmanlike in many circumstances but for more informal use you might prefer a lighter grey. Use of coloured linings can be a good idea to reduce the apparent formality of a suit with a modern twist.
Always remember that the suit is for you and that you do not have to tick boxes simply to be judged here.
PDB, welcome to the Lounge!
If you don't wear suits for work, you can have them made for fun: flannels, tweeds, linen - anything. A dark blue suit might also be an option, the coat of which could double as almost a blazer - for increased versatility and usability. But for starting out, why choose a piece you'd wear rarely or "on occasion" - such as a gray worsted suit - and not something you could wear all the time, without feeling "dressed up"? Like a tweed jacket (Autumn is approaching) and one or two pairs of flannels or cords.
If you don't wear suits for work, you can have them made for fun: flannels, tweeds, linen - anything. A dark blue suit might also be an option, the coat of which could double as almost a blazer - for increased versatility and usability. But for starting out, why choose a piece you'd wear rarely or "on occasion" - such as a gray worsted suit - and not something you could wear all the time, without feeling "dressed up"? Like a tweed jacket (Autumn is approaching) and one or two pairs of flannels or cords.
Get a hand made canvas. The rise is your call. Johnstons makes a great thornproof. For suiting stay English. Bateman Ogden and Dougdale are sound goods. For linen try Caccioppoli. If you need any advice I find Costi to be very reliable. Sponge all goods .Frank
Welcome PDB15!
Porter and Harding have a 17oz blue thornproof...have a look at this thread..
http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... oof#p54674
I have had a couple of suits from J.G.Hardy Worsted Alsport. I like the non business patterns, but in future would look towards a more solid heavier cloth. I think blue, as Costi suggests, would be ideal for versatility and achieving a more urbane than rustic outcome. Do a search for Rus in Urbe. Glenhunt from Bateman Ogden has a blue herringbone. I think it's around 17oz but is a faux rather than true tweed, as it is a worsted. Harrisons have Glenroyal, but possibly too soft for suiting. They have Hartwist which is fine for trousers, but you would need further advice on whether it's too outdoor and rough for your needs. Others include Hardy Alsport and Porter and Harding thornproofs. Lovat Mill has a cheviot high twist Kirkton book, which may make suiting and W.Bill may have something useable in a cheviot. Of course, there is the L.L.Cloth club to be investigated. I myself, am interested in tweeds and would benefit from your enquiries. Perhaps Frank, Costi, Alden et al can share their expert experience and give good guidance. The question is what would make a good solid blue tweed suit of a cloth with guts, but being on the dressier side of the Rus in Urbe spectrum, would have maximum versatility? In any case, of course there are proper worsteds with more colourful blues and other interesting patterns to consider. Whatever you decide, I hope you are delighted with your final choice. Good Luck, Rowly.
Porter and Harding have a 17oz blue thornproof...have a look at this thread..
http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... oof#p54674
I have had a couple of suits from J.G.Hardy Worsted Alsport. I like the non business patterns, but in future would look towards a more solid heavier cloth. I think blue, as Costi suggests, would be ideal for versatility and achieving a more urbane than rustic outcome. Do a search for Rus in Urbe. Glenhunt from Bateman Ogden has a blue herringbone. I think it's around 17oz but is a faux rather than true tweed, as it is a worsted. Harrisons have Glenroyal, but possibly too soft for suiting. They have Hartwist which is fine for trousers, but you would need further advice on whether it's too outdoor and rough for your needs. Others include Hardy Alsport and Porter and Harding thornproofs. Lovat Mill has a cheviot high twist Kirkton book, which may make suiting and W.Bill may have something useable in a cheviot. Of course, there is the L.L.Cloth club to be investigated. I myself, am interested in tweeds and would benefit from your enquiries. Perhaps Frank, Costi, Alden et al can share their expert experience and give good guidance. The question is what would make a good solid blue tweed suit of a cloth with guts, but being on the dressier side of the Rus in Urbe spectrum, would have maximum versatility? In any case, of course there are proper worsteds with more colourful blues and other interesting patterns to consider. Whatever you decide, I hope you are delighted with your final choice. Good Luck, Rowly.
Dear PDB,
you got a lot of good advice already. May be I can add a few thoughts.
Regarding the cloth, as you do not intend to wear it for work: Be clear where you would wear it most likely (theatre? casino? nice restaurants? big city? nice weekends in good company? anything else?). I assume you live in the UK or London. This means worsted, corduroy, tweed, flanell rather than linen or cotton.
Also, spend some thought on how many suits you plan to commission in the next 2-3 years. If this would be 3 suits, as an example, you could go for something blue, something grey, something tweed or corduroy. While building up slowly on something, you might get the taste of wearing suits more often (this happened to me...). By then, you will know better how to expand. If you start on the more "boring" standards, you set a solid basis for the future, you get something to build on. I have the impression that many men get this wrong when they start with bespoke. Last thing on cloth: Avoid the super something fabric. Go for the solid traditional fabrics the LL is lobbying for.
Regarding the tailor: my advice would be "go and see them, then decide whom you feel best with". Take appointments, wear nice cloths (you better go in a nice pair of jeans than an ugly suit), wear your best shoes. Figure out what suits you better - the soft Anderson Sheppard style (Steven Hitchcock, also Quearney does it), or the more constructed you would find at Huntsman, Richard Anderson or Norton; or the ones in between the extremes. When the tailors have RTW, try it on to see how you look in it. Take pictures, show those to your wife or friends. Tailors will also let you slip into a coat in the making, so you get the feel of their craft. You can also ask the tailors you are visiting what they would recommend you to start with. This way, you show confidence in their work, and you tease out information that helps you getting a picture about the tailor.
It is a little bit like dating a couple of nice girls before deciding on next steps
. The interaction between you and your potential tailor is important. Go for the one you feel good with, and take your time. Rush and pressure result in expensive mistakes.
My last advice:
1. Always order a second pair of trousers, as they are getting used faster than the coat. About the height: find out on your first suit; have the trousers cut differently.
2. Fix your shirts before you commission your suit. Your tailor needs to know what kind of shirts you are going to wear with his suits. This is to get the proportions well balanced.
3. You say you want the first step into bespoke to be a success. Hmmm - be aware that your first suit might not be your favourite suit after 2, 3 years. There are so many things you need to find out about yourself, what the tailor needs to learn about you. With good planning, you can avoid a failure of your first bespoke suit. If you achieve this, you will never look back to RTW or MTM...
cheers, david
you got a lot of good advice already. May be I can add a few thoughts.
Regarding the cloth, as you do not intend to wear it for work: Be clear where you would wear it most likely (theatre? casino? nice restaurants? big city? nice weekends in good company? anything else?). I assume you live in the UK or London. This means worsted, corduroy, tweed, flanell rather than linen or cotton.
Also, spend some thought on how many suits you plan to commission in the next 2-3 years. If this would be 3 suits, as an example, you could go for something blue, something grey, something tweed or corduroy. While building up slowly on something, you might get the taste of wearing suits more often (this happened to me...). By then, you will know better how to expand. If you start on the more "boring" standards, you set a solid basis for the future, you get something to build on. I have the impression that many men get this wrong when they start with bespoke. Last thing on cloth: Avoid the super something fabric. Go for the solid traditional fabrics the LL is lobbying for.
Regarding the tailor: my advice would be "go and see them, then decide whom you feel best with". Take appointments, wear nice cloths (you better go in a nice pair of jeans than an ugly suit), wear your best shoes. Figure out what suits you better - the soft Anderson Sheppard style (Steven Hitchcock, also Quearney does it), or the more constructed you would find at Huntsman, Richard Anderson or Norton; or the ones in between the extremes. When the tailors have RTW, try it on to see how you look in it. Take pictures, show those to your wife or friends. Tailors will also let you slip into a coat in the making, so you get the feel of their craft. You can also ask the tailors you are visiting what they would recommend you to start with. This way, you show confidence in their work, and you tease out information that helps you getting a picture about the tailor.
It is a little bit like dating a couple of nice girls before deciding on next steps
. The interaction between you and your potential tailor is important. Go for the one you feel good with, and take your time. Rush and pressure result in expensive mistakes.My last advice:
1. Always order a second pair of trousers, as they are getting used faster than the coat. About the height: find out on your first suit; have the trousers cut differently.
2. Fix your shirts before you commission your suit. Your tailor needs to know what kind of shirts you are going to wear with his suits. This is to get the proportions well balanced.
3. You say you want the first step into bespoke to be a success. Hmmm - be aware that your first suit might not be your favourite suit after 2, 3 years. There are so many things you need to find out about yourself, what the tailor needs to learn about you. With good planning, you can avoid a failure of your first bespoke suit. If you achieve this, you will never look back to RTW or MTM...
cheers, david
good advice
I'd like to thank everyone for there extremely helpful advice and suggestions - it really has given me a considerable amount to think about. I will let you all know how I get on and what I decide.
I don't want to be contraversial as a new member, but I found a thread on here 'Three different tailors, three very different bespoke suits' by Rickblaine. To be honest, I was quite shocked with the images, before I had even read the text. Even to my untrained eye, I thought something was not quite right about all the suits, I would have been extremely disappointed for a 'bespoke' suit to have such an off-the-peg look (sorry Rickblaine). This is nothing to do with the quality of those suits, but it did make me realise that I prefer a higher rise in the trousers and definitely not with a belt - the photo images on here really are useful.
Thanks again for giving a rookie advice............. by the way, I do live in London.
I don't want to be contraversial as a new member, but I found a thread on here 'Three different tailors, three very different bespoke suits' by Rickblaine. To be honest, I was quite shocked with the images, before I had even read the text. Even to my untrained eye, I thought something was not quite right about all the suits, I would have been extremely disappointed for a 'bespoke' suit to have such an off-the-peg look (sorry Rickblaine). This is nothing to do with the quality of those suits, but it did make me realise that I prefer a higher rise in the trousers and definitely not with a belt - the photo images on here really are useful.
Thanks again for giving a rookie advice............. by the way, I do live in London.
Good point, although it increases the price quite heavily. I suppose it's best when you start wearing both pairs right from the beginning, so they will age even with the coat.davidhuh wrote:
1. Always order a second pair of trousers, as they are getting used faster than the coat.
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Gruto
The extra pair of trousers advice is open to discussion, IMO. Trousers in heavy worsted are really durable, and I don't see a need for an extra pair in that cloth. Woollen flannel and similar fragile cloths are a different matter.T.K. wrote:Good point, although it increases the price quite heavily. I suppose it's best when you start wearing both pairs right from the beginning, so they will age even with the coat.davidhuh wrote:
1. Always order a second pair of trousers, as they are getting used faster than the coat.
Last edited by Gruto on Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:22 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Simon A
Another advantage of the two pairs of trousers, when one is just building up the wardrobe, is that one pair can be medium rise with side adjusters, the other high rise cut for braces, and you can experiment with both styles to see which one you like to use more.
It does indeed. However, bespeaking a suit should be see as an investment decision, not an expense. If it would be the latter, I would agree with you and think twice about it.T.K. wrote:Good point, although it increases the price quite heavily. I suppose it's best when you start wearing both pairs right from the beginning, so they will age even with the coat.davidhuh wrote:
1. Always order a second pair of trousers, as they are getting used faster than the coat.
Very good point Simon. I always play with the second pair. one pair with PTU, second without; one with fishtail, the other not etc. I would never have them made identical. This makes the suit more versatile without extra cost.Simon A wrote:Another advantage of the two pairs of trousers, when one is just building up the wardrobe, is that one pair can be medium rise with side adjusters, the other high rise cut for braces, and you can experiment with both styles to see which one you like to use more.
cheers, david
I have also done this...but mostly to experiment with a view to getting my preferred cut established.Simon A wrote:
Another advantage of the two pairs of trousers, when one is just building up the wardrobe, is that one pair can be medium rise with side adjusters, the other high rise cut for braces, and you can experiment with both styles to see which one you like to use more.
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Minion Lawyer
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Gentlemen,
I wanted to post in connection with Mr Westmancott (mentioned in the original post), who is currently making something a bespoke jacket for me. I am not sure how long he has been in business since his bankruptcy but he is working again and offers both MTM and bespoke. I will hopefully post a review of Mr Westmancott's work in the future (as I feel it is useful to people seeking information and caused me hesitation when I first placed an order) but don't feel able to do so until I have taken final delivery of the jacket. In the meantime, I have set out a summary of my prelminary thoughts below.
Mr Westmancott seems to be very quick to notice points and offers as many fittings as necessary to get the garment right - he will also provide a detailed explanation as to why is making the changes which I found very interesting. I have enjoyed each fitting immensely.
I have found him very flexible regarding issues of style. He was willing to discuss a variety of ideas and present me with as many choices as I felt able to deal with. I cannot say that I have challenged his creativity too heavily yet, but feel I would be able to do so without risking the quality of the garment. This is to say that he creates a sense of confidence in his abilities. Perhaps, given that I have ordered something, this should go without saying but I feel it is critical to any tailor.
He is happy to discuss detailed aspects of the trade and has answered every question I have ever raised in as much detail as I could ask for. I suspect this has helped create the sense of confidence I described above.
I have found his status as a 'travelling tailor' both helpful and unhelpful since it has meant that I had one fitting without a mirror but has made it easy to attend fittings. I could, of course, have avoided this problem by scheduling an appointment either at a meeting room at my firm (with a mirror) or at my home, but in the interests of full disclosure that is currently my main concern.
Although my experience with Mr Westmancott has had several hiccups (none of which relate directly to the tailoring -TNT briefly losing my jacket, for example), I have to say that Mr Westmancott has treated me more than fairly in every respect. It would be pre-emptive to say that I am delighted until I have taken final possession of my order but I have been very pleased so far and only regret that I have neglected to have pictures taken during my fittings since it would be immensely helpful for the planned review (and indeed this post).
So far I would happily recommend Mr Westmancott to my friends and family. As I will not be able to write a review for a few weeks (due to my schedule making me unavailable for a final fitting for a while) I am happy to respond to any queries. I can be reached at j [dot] m [dot] r [dot] brown [at] gmail [dot] com - hopefully everyone can break that particular code!
Kind regards,
Michael
I wanted to post in connection with Mr Westmancott (mentioned in the original post), who is currently making something a bespoke jacket for me. I am not sure how long he has been in business since his bankruptcy but he is working again and offers both MTM and bespoke. I will hopefully post a review of Mr Westmancott's work in the future (as I feel it is useful to people seeking information and caused me hesitation when I first placed an order) but don't feel able to do so until I have taken final delivery of the jacket. In the meantime, I have set out a summary of my prelminary thoughts below.
Mr Westmancott seems to be very quick to notice points and offers as many fittings as necessary to get the garment right - he will also provide a detailed explanation as to why is making the changes which I found very interesting. I have enjoyed each fitting immensely.
I have found him very flexible regarding issues of style. He was willing to discuss a variety of ideas and present me with as many choices as I felt able to deal with. I cannot say that I have challenged his creativity too heavily yet, but feel I would be able to do so without risking the quality of the garment. This is to say that he creates a sense of confidence in his abilities. Perhaps, given that I have ordered something, this should go without saying but I feel it is critical to any tailor.
He is happy to discuss detailed aspects of the trade and has answered every question I have ever raised in as much detail as I could ask for. I suspect this has helped create the sense of confidence I described above.
I have found his status as a 'travelling tailor' both helpful and unhelpful since it has meant that I had one fitting without a mirror but has made it easy to attend fittings. I could, of course, have avoided this problem by scheduling an appointment either at a meeting room at my firm (with a mirror) or at my home, but in the interests of full disclosure that is currently my main concern.
Although my experience with Mr Westmancott has had several hiccups (none of which relate directly to the tailoring -TNT briefly losing my jacket, for example), I have to say that Mr Westmancott has treated me more than fairly in every respect. It would be pre-emptive to say that I am delighted until I have taken final possession of my order but I have been very pleased so far and only regret that I have neglected to have pictures taken during my fittings since it would be immensely helpful for the planned review (and indeed this post).
So far I would happily recommend Mr Westmancott to my friends and family. As I will not be able to write a review for a few weeks (due to my schedule making me unavailable for a final fitting for a while) I am happy to respond to any queries. I can be reached at j [dot] m [dot] r [dot] brown [at] gmail [dot] com - hopefully everyone can break that particular code!
Kind regards,
Michael
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