Style and Stage

[NJS]

Inner freedom is just a question of choice. One can simply choose to be unconcerned with trivia and narrow-mindedness and trying to make an impression. It is the links with others that can generate obligations which sometimes ensnare us - an electricity bill is a simple example.
NJS

[Costi]

Inner freedom is just a question of choice. One can simply choose to be unconcerned with trivia and narrow-mindedness and trying to make an impression.

Absolutely, but how many can and do make this choice? There are so many limits and barriers inside that we need to raise... easier said than done

It is the links with others that can generate obligations which sometimes ensnare us - an electricity bill is a simple example.

True, but how much influence does that have on style?
Where we live, for instance, is a link of the kind that I had in mind. It may be taken as an obstacle, as a "string" that limits our possibiliy of action ("Oh, if lived in Naples..."), we may feel "bound" to (therefore rejecting) the place where we are, instead of feeling this link as an intimate connection (cultural, sentimental) that is part of shaping our style, thus integrating it as a positive link.

But this is not a STAGE, Gruto - ideally, we don't ACT thinking about the place where we are, this link is fully integrated and we behave naturally in our environment. If we change the environment, some of it remains in us - only Mephisto is the perfect chameleon, changing masks according to the scene required.

It brings me back to the other question above: Show me just one real man of style, who doesn't somehow apply an element of acting incorporating a shared world that other people can relate to.

I think I have answered your question in extenso - if my answer is not to your satisfaction, perhaps the question is formulated in terms that cannot find a valid answer.

[NJS]

Freeing the spirit means getting to the stage of thinking outside the box and I think that we all have that potential but realizing it depends upon upbringing (including any reaction to upbringing) and understanding that most people live their lives hiding in a familiar corner, hoping that they will not be noticed or have anything unusual demanded of them. Getting older also assists in dumping conditioned fears and beliefs.

We have chosen to live in an environmentally spectacular place but have had to give up a lot of social engagement that we had in London. However, we have learned, in the process, that the important social interraction continues as before and has broadened to include others here; what we have jettisoned is the small talk of mere acquaitances and hangers-on and a jolly big relief that is too. Recently, we have decided to include a couple of other places (far away from here) as parts of our habitat but would not contemplate living in any 'western' city again - nice for shopping and for seeing family and friends occasionally but we'd never live there again as the people who live there all the time really are trapped; stuck; channelled; cornered; snookered by conditioning; against which they just dare not rebel. The poor sods.

Oh! they say that it is lovely there and what fun they have but they miss out the bits about travelling on a stinking underground train at 8 am, with their faces pressed into some starnger's rancid armpit, as they sway to and fro' on their way to jobs that they have learned to endure.

[Costi]

Great freedom discourse, Nicholas - who needs a separate thread for freedom?
I know about your choice and I believe you are fully enjoying it, no doubt about that. However, I am sure city-people would also find much to object to YOUR lifestyle in Sleepy Hollow. I guess the point (to me...) is not to convince ourselves that our choice is the best or that we couldn't be doing better than that, or that the others are prisoners in their own lives, trapped in a routine existence - but to realize that, whether London or Sleepy Hollow, it really doesn't matter all that much after all. Someone who lacks your spirit might find your habitat boring, while you find his own so hectic. The point is that one can be happy anywhere, from Mandela's prison cell, through the morning commuting train, all the way to the Elysian fields of Sleepy Hollow We can draw meaning and sense out of life anywhere. Of course, the results will be different - as Gruto argues - but the feeling is the same. There are many ways to be unhappy, but happy people are very much alike, even if their lives are so different.
Perhaps this is one of the points I am trying to make - you can try to build style on the awareness of being unhappy and the conviction that you never will be, or draw natural style from being, or aiming to be happy. I believe men who radiate style cannot be negative, pessimistic, unhappy people. They can accomplish great things, but never style...
I guess you have to WANT to be happy.
(Nicholas, we can have a separate thread for happiness, too, along with freedom - without splitting hairs, let's agree, if possible, that to be happy is to be glad that you were born alive, no matter how hard or easy life seems...)

[NJS]

I think that I have two LL identities NJS and storeynicholas. Nevermind.

My reflections are just my perceptions and desires for myself and I do not mean to be judging those who would, probably, find the Sleepy Hollow boring. Long before I got to my current stage, I spent a whole year doing a job that my soul rebelled against and then I did it again, later on and, I suppose, from those experiences, I realized that many people are conditioned into thinking and chanting mantras such as: "however much you hate your job, make sure that you get another one before you leave it". That's rubbish - because working at something and with people that annoy you very much actually damages the soul and, I am sure, also the physical health. Better, by far, to carry hods of bricks or sweep the streets for the time being.

Of course, people can be happy and free in themselves anywhere at all. Indeed, a Hindu friend is always saying: "Where you would be, you are there already!" The trouble seems to be generating and holding onto the belief. And there is nothing wrong in living in, say, London provided that one has made the assessment and analysis. I just think that most people go, unthinkingly, with the flow and could be freer or happier. The best happiness for me is just contentment; not exactly 'making do' with any old thing but being content with the best that you can do or get; leaving the 'sour grapes' on the vine and watching and listening to the sea and staring at the moon and stars; enjoying a pipe of 'baccy. I think that we need often to remind ourselves what tiny, little bits of things we are.

[Costi]

I think that I have two LL identities NJS and storeynicholas. Nevermind.

Hello, Dr. Jekyll!

My reflections are just my perceptions and desires for myself and I do not mean to be judging those who would, probably, find the Sleepy Hollow boring. Long before I got to my current stage, I spent a whole year doing a job that my soul rebelled against and then I did it again, later on and, I suppose, from those experiences, I realized that many people are conditioned into thinking and chanting mantras such as: "however much you hate your job, make sure that you get another one before you leave it". That's rubbish - because working at something and with people that annoy you very much actually damages the soul and, I am sure, also the physical health. Better, by far, to carry hods of bricks or sweep the streets for the time being.

Perfectly true...
"The converted only speaks to relinquishers; all holders-on are stranglers"
(Rainer Maria Rilke)

Of course, people can be happy and free in themselves anywhere at all. Indeed, a Hindu friend is always saying: "Where you would be, you are there already!"

I also read it as "Wherever you go, there you are". The implications are mind-blowing...

The trouble seems to be generating and holding onto the belief. And there is nothing wrong in living in, say, London provided that one has made the assessment and analysis. I just think that most people go, unthinkingly, with the flow and could be freer or happier. The best happiness for me is just contentment; not exactly 'making do' with any old thing but being content with the best that you can do or get; leaving the 'sour grapes' on the vine and watching and listening to the sea and staring at the moon and stars; enjoying a pipe of 'baccy. I think that we need often to remind ourselves what tiny, little bits of things we are.

...
(too nice to comment - just nodding silently )

[NJS]

Well, here's one of the greatest poems of the 20th Century. A great solace, always and wherever I go. Verse III always resonates because it tells us that the conception of things is all really. The physicallity seldom lives up to the dream:

http://www.bartleby.com/148/2.html

[NJS]

Another great Yeats' poem is:

http://www.poetryfoundation.org/poetrym ... /poem/3838

and also this:

http://www.kalliope.org/digt.pl?longdid=yeats2001062019

Miracles of language.

[Rowly]

My reflections are just my perceptions and desires for myself and I do not mean to be judging those who would, probably, find the Sleepy Hollow boring. Long before I got to my current stage, I spent a whole year doing a job that my soul rebelled against and then I did it again, later on and, I suppose, from those experiences, I realized that many people are conditioned into thinking and chanting mantras such as: "however much you hate your job, make sure that you get another one before you leave it". That's rubbish - because working at something and with people that annoy you very much actually damages the soul and, I am sure, also the physical health. Better, by far, to carry hods of bricks or sweep the streets for the time being.

Of course, people can be happy and free in themselves anywhere at all. Indeed, a Hindu friend is always saying: "Where you would be, you are there already!" The trouble seems to be generating and holding onto the belief. And there is nothing wrong in living in, say, London provided that one has made the assessment and analysis. I just think that most people go, unthinkingly, with the flow and could be freer or happier. The best happiness for me is just contentment; not exactly 'making do' with any old thing but being content with the best that you can do or get; leaving the 'sour grapes' on the vine and watching and listening to the sea and staring at the moon and stars; enjoying a pipe of 'baccy. I think that we need often to remind ourselves what tiny, little bits of things we are.NJS

Thank you, NJS, Your words are full of charm and grace.

because working at something and with people that annoy you very much actually damages the soul .........leaving the 'sour grapes' on the vine

I think the unending task is to try to maintain a balance between protecting the soul and at the same time leaving the sour grapes on the vine. Not being a martyr and yet avoiding bitterness. I find that this perennial theme of the human condition is dealt with beautifully in ... Man's Search For Meaning: by Viktor E Frankl.
Thanks again.

[Costi]

the adorable silhouette of the last diva vanished from the balcony…
And, sad like poor Schlemihl, he who had not lost his shadow, but had lost himself, pulled his creased face off the fence stave and went away with dallied step towards his artificial world.

A superb translation. How shallow!....she not only reduced to a silhouette, but that of a diva, whose identity depends on the attention of others..and he, reduced to a shadow in his artificial world. All image and skin deep. Where is the inner beauty that needs to shine through for style to exist? Or any other worthwhile human value, for that matter?

And thank YOU, Rowly, for your generosity. Now I understand how a good critic can make a genius out of an unsuspecting writer What beautiful poetry you squeezed out of these words that I chose out of instinct. You see, like good music that we enjoy listening to even when it's not so brilliantly played, when a piece of writing is really good no translation can harm it

[NJS]

the adorable silhouette of the last diva vanished from the balcony…
And, sad like poor Schlemihl, he who had not lost his shadow, but had lost himself, pulled his creased face off the fence stave and went away with dallied step towards his artificial world.

A superb translation. How shallow!....she not only reduced to a silhouette, but that of a diva, whose identity depends on the attention of others..and he, reduced to a shadow in his artificial world. All image and skin deep. Where is the inner beauty that needs to shine through for style to exist? Or any other worthwhile human value, for that matter?

And thank YOU, Rowly, for your generosity. Now I understand how a good critic can make a genius out of an unsuspecting writer What beautiful poetry you squeezed out of these words that I chose out of instinct. You see, like good music that we enjoy listening to even when it's not so brilliantly played, when a piece of writing is really good no translation can harm it

This is getting close to the light in the quest. True style must, surely, be benificently directed outwards; Jesus Christ and Buddha are two famous proponents and neither was a clothes-horse or a 'performer'. Anybody with enough cash can be well clothed; being well dressed is something more but being well dressed is never more than a slight clue to the style within a man. Even as a slight clue it is an uncertain one at that because a well dressed man might just be a popinjay or a dissembler or even totally obnoxious and there are many brilliant and good-hearted scruffs.

[Gruto]

Solipsists

Style is created by an individual but he will have draw on a shared world to make it happen, and he will be influenced by that world. Style is "co-being" or "being with". As a consequence, creating style is not only a mental enterprise. It is social and bodily enterprise too.

[NJS]

Solipsists

Style is created by an individual but he will have draw on a shared world to make it happen, and he will be influenced by that world. Style is "co-being" or "being with". As a consequence, creating style is not only a mental enterprise. It is social and bodily enterprise too.

I see polemicists here but the chief solipsist seems to be you as you are the one who seems to glory in talking about 'creating' style; making it incarnate, and then staging it as a kind of visual or dramatic art form, specifically to be admired just for itself; or, better still, you are like Pygmalion with an auto-icon.

[Gruto]

talking about 'creating' style; making it incarnate, and then staging it as a kind of visual or dramatic art form

I wasn't the one who introduced acting and actors as a key to style, but clearly there is an element of acting in style. Acting doesn't have to supend authenticity. It can be a way of letting it glow.

[davidhuh]

True style must, surely, be benificently directed outwards; Jesus Christ and Buddha are two famous proponents and neither was a clothes-horse or a 'performer'. Anybody with enough cash can be well clothed; being well dressed is something more but being well dressed is never more than a slight clue to the style within a man. Even as a slight clue it is an uncertain one at that because a well dressed man might just be a popinjay or a dissembler or even totally obnoxious and there are many brilliant and good-hearted scruffs.

Dear Nicholas,

this is spot on, thank you.

It makes me remember when I visited Vietnam for the first time in 1998, and the Gulf a few years earlier. In Vietnam back then, there was little tourism and not many foreigners. I was most impressed by the vietnamese ladies expressing incredible style. Hardly anybody was rich in Vietnam, but I was so astonished to see what they made out of this - mostly by wearing simple, traditional white shirts with skirts or the beautiful Ao Dai.

In the Middle East, I was impressed by the men, rich or poor, wearing their traditional clothing with equal pride and grace as the vietnamese ladies.

My conclusion was: keep things simple and true to yourself.

cheers, david