in-progress jacket, pics inside, looking for opinions

[JRS]

Hi everyone, I already posted these on SF, but I know a lot of you are experienced bespoke customers and so I thought I'd post them here as well. I wish the quality of the pics was better but it gives you an idea.

Someone on the other forum mentionned that there was more stitching on the lapels than he had seen on many bespoke jackets. It sounded like a good thing, but I really am interested in learning more about the whole process of making a suit, so if anyone has any comments i'd be interested to hear them. The pics are from after the first fitting btw. For the next fitting he's going to do a bit more waist suppression and shorten it a bit (it was left intentionally long so that I could decide after the fitting).

Btw, the third pic gives the best approximation of color, and it's a super 120s/silk blend. Come to think of it, I haven't discussed buttons with the tailor yet, any recommendations?

[Guest]

You should have posted with you wearing it! Difficult to say something on a mannequin.

Do you feel the armholes tight? Do you feel the collar fit and dont move?

I can't understand how can a tailor vary the length, being the pockets already done: you cannot modify too much. You should adjust the length before, and place buttons and pockets last.

It seems the lower pockets will be under the last button: pay attention to it next time.

Thanks for the pictures, and please, post next fitting too!!!

My compliments,

Giona.

[Leonard Logsdail]

The collar, shoulders and chest look very good. Signs to a tailor that a coat will fit and look good upon completion.

Personally, for the extra work involved, I have never understood why a tailor would only fit a coat with one sleeve instead of two. Firstly, a great many men have different sleeve lengths and secondly, as can be seem from the photgraphs (although, admittedly, the coat is not on a person, but a form) ofetn one sleev can create inbalance when fitting.

But these are my personal views gained from my experience. Many good tailors, I know, fit with only one sleeve.

Leonard

[manton]

The second picture concerns me. First, the shoulders do not look even; the right one is higher. Now, that could have any number of causes, including your shoulder shape and the fact that the coat is on a dummy and not you. Nonetheless, it is something to look out for.

Much more disturbing is the left-right balance. You can see that the gorge is basically even on both sides. Yet the coat is much, much longer on the right side. It is so much longer that I can't imagine that is the fault of the way it was hung on the dummy. I think you need to have the tailor address that problem. It's hard to say whether the right is too long or the left is too short. Given the button placement (shown by marking thread) and the length of the left sleeve, I am inclined to say "both."

Unfortunately, the pad stitching in the lapels does not show up so well, but it is true that a lof of small stitches is (but one) indicator of quality.

As to the buttons, is this a suit or an odd jacket?

[JRS]

Thanks for the replies.

Manton, you have a sharp eye. Firstly, you're right about the right shoulder being higher, but that is to account for a lower drop on that side. Also, the left-right balance of the jacket is just off like that because he pinned it higher during the fitting so that i could decide on the final length of the jacket. The length was originally cut to be the same as a MTM armani I had made a couple of years ago, but I thought it would look better shorter. So the final length will be what you see on the left side.

And it's an odd jacket.

[uppercase]

Ahh...that's why it's better to see the finished product as worn by its owner.

[Alias]

Now that you mention it, I do notice the left side pinned up at the bottom.

That pad-stitching is really something.

[Leonard Logsdail]

I would put money down that the reason the coat pulls down on the left on the dummy is only because there is no sleev the other side to balnce it. It was probably not placed on the dummy correctly in the first place. This is a common occurence. As to the bottom being uneven, at this stage of the game this really means nothing.

Leonard

[JRS]

Leonard, i'm curious, in a previous post you said that "The collar, shoulders and chest look very good. Signs to a tailor that a coat will fit and look good upon completion." As far as the shoulders are concerned, I know what to look for, but I was wondering what it was that made you say that about the chest and collar?

Is there something in particular you're looking at that tells you they're well done? I know that the collar on a finished jacket should neither bunch-up or stand away from your neck, even when you're moving around or sitting, but how can you make anything out from the pictures provided?

Again, I'm glad to have the combined expertise of those on the forum.

[Leonard Logsdail]

JRS, In looking at the photographs it seems to me that the collar sits really well around the neck of the dummy. Also, the way it lays as it joins the lapel looks very good.

Leonard

[JRS]

I thought i'd update this with new pics. I know, they still aren't pics of me wearing it, but they weren't taken while I was at the store, so you'll have to take my word that at the second fitting it was nearly perfect. And in case anyone is wondering, the puckering at the back is just lack of pressing. Also if you look closely at the breast pocket you can see the stitching. This is a "fun" jacket and we went with a thicker thread (i think he called it half-thickness silk thread or something...) so that it's more visible. The same stitching will be on the lapels, at the same distance from the edges. For you Montrealers that might want something more subtle, he can do that too. I'm very happy so far.

[RWS]

Would you be so kind, JRS, as to let us know the name and address of the man who's making your coat? Is he both cutter and tailor? Are we to assume that this commission is of an odd jacket and not of a suit?

Doubtless you posted fuller details on SF, but many of us do not read those posts.

[JRS]

It would be my pleasure. The tailor's name is Achod Amassian and he's the head tailor at Harry Rosen's Montreal store. In case you're not aware, Harry Rosen is a high-end men's store in Canada.

Contact info:
1455 Peel Street, Suite 227 (inside Les Cours Mont Royal)
Montréal, PQ
H3A 1T5
514.294.3315

I know some people might balk at getting bespoke done at a chain instead of an independant tailor, but frankly this is Montreal and not London, and my tolerance for risk is fairly low when it comes to clothes. I'd also like to mention that I long ago pledged my undying loyalty to the store because the gentleman I deal with there has treated me exceedingly well from the first time i stepped in to the store as your typical teenager wearing nothing but rags. There are a couple of salesmen there that provide a level of service way beyond what is typical. There is nothing they won't do for you. If you're ever shopping in Montreal, just ask me for the name of the guy I deal with.

Getting back to bespoke, only two of their stores offer it, and the garments are cut and tailored on-site in each case. Achod is the salesman, the cutter, and the man in charge of the Montreal bespoke shop. An old italian guy whom I haven't met does the same thing in Toronto. I can't say whether or not they have a style they prefer, but I'm sure they both must. From what I can gather, the operations are organized the same way as your typical SR house. For instance, I know Achod just hired a tailor specifically for his great work doing surgeon's cuffs.

I'll give you what little history there is... The Montreal bespoke shop is actually fairly new. It's been running for 3 years, but is now very busy, with a lot of repeat customers. What they were originally doing when they opened it was measuring and fitting the clients in montreal and then shipping the jackets to Toronto to be made. In this way, it was more of a hybrid MTM/bespoke operation because the pattern was cut by the Italian in Toronto, based on measurements taken in Montreal.

The service was more popular than expected, and Toronto soon became back-logged with orders, so Achod asked Harry Rosen (the actual founder of the store) to let him cut a suit. Harry was impressed and told Achod to start cutting the Montreal suits. As of that point, it could be called a true bespoke shop.

Achod is very accomodating and is a pleasure to deal with. He's also quite young by most standards, as he's in his late 40s or early 50s. I'll reserve final judgement for the finished product, but so far, I'm extremely pleased.

If there's anything else you'd like to know, don't hesitate to ask. I'll update this thread again once I have the jacket in my possession with pictures of it on me. Oh and you guessed correctly, it is an odd jacket.

Oh, and if you do go, tell him Jody sent you!

[RWS]

Thanks, Jody, for these details. I look forward to photographs of your wearing what should be a fine jacket indeed.

. . . . I long ago pledged my undying loyalty to the store because the gentleman I deal with there has treated me exceedingly well from the first time i stepped in to the store as your typical teenager wearing nothing but rags.

This is admirable, on your part and on his.

. . . . The Montreal bespoke shop is actually fairly new. It's been running for 3 years, but is now very busy, with a lot of repeat customers. . . . The service was more popular than expected, and Toronto soon became back-logged with orders . . . .

So bespoke has a future even brighter than its present, at least in Canada. May it be so everywhere!

[JRS]

This is admirable, on your part and on his.

Honestly, I don't think customer loyalty is that uncommon, even today. What's uncommon is that a customer finds a reason to be loyal. I believe that when you find someone that treats you well, you should stick with them. Not only does it make the experience more enjoyable, but it becomes mutually benefitial relationship that makes a lot of sense.

Most stores, and their salesmen, are just very short-sighted. They push merchandise on people that results in less satisfaction in the long run. My guy however, wouldn't even let me buy something that didn't look good on me. He doesn't let this week's commission get in the way of the customer relationship. In the end, he does much better overall because all of his customers return to him. He and the store now have a stable base of customers that will always be coming back. It requires more patience to get to that point, but they now have lifelong customers. It's amazing to me that more people can't figure this out, and I've been stunned by the attitudes of salesman at some high end boutiques.

I think HR is a perfect example of a store that understands that it's better to pursue a long-term relationship than a short-term sale. Harry Rosen, the man himself, probably has a lot to do with this, as I've seen him at the store on more than one occassion checking up on things, even as he's in his late 70s.