The reliability of swatches and cloth books?

[Rowly]

I have noticed that the same sample from the same book in different tailors can look different. I have had suits made and comparing the sample with the final garment, there is a difference in the colour tones. Recently, I received a swatch from Smith Woollens, which had an ''X'' hand written after the number. On enquiring, I was told that the colour of the cloth was now darker than the earlier part of the roll... and that this is the colour you will get if you order it now. If I had ordered with my tailor , who showed me the book with the original lighter shade, I may have been disappointed. So, is it a lottery ordering from cloth books or swatches? Is there any point in deliberating over two slightly different swatches, as to which is best to choose? At present, I am trying to choose between a mid grey herringbone from either Fine Classics or Oyster. Should I just go for the Oyster on the basis that it is heavier.... and hope for the best? Has anyone had the same problem? What is the best approach to this.... I do find it frustrating, as it's difficult enough to imagine the finished suit from the samples available, at the best of times ......at least it is for me. What are your views? Thanks, Rowly.

[alden]

Rowly,

This is a problem intrinsic to cloth sales of this kind. Every new run of cloth is different from the previous, even if all the same materials are used. What you see at the tailor's shop in the book may not be what you will actually get.

That being said, a good distributor tries to keep their books as current as possible and employ people who do nothing but update books and send out new ones.

Your tailor can ask the distributor if the run in his book corresponds to the actual availability. Distributors will keep bolts of various runs of the same cloth in stock and can easily check that the one you are viewing is available or propose a newer one.

At the end of the day, the variances are so slight that you can normally order in confidence but there can be surprises.

Cheers

Michael

[Rowly]

by alden » Thu Feb 24, 2011 4:38 pm
At the end of the day, the variances are so slight that you can normally order in confidence but there can be surprises.

Michael,
Thanks for clearing this up. I suppose, by the law of averages, that some of these surprises may even be pleasant surprises where the cloth delivered is even nicer than the offering suggested by the swatch. It is good customer service that Smiths will send a swatch specific to the actual cloth available. I am suitably reassured! ....thanks again, Rowly

[tteplitzmd]

There is an advantage in seeing a bolt of cloth. Texture, drape, "hand," and the effect of a pattern over a larger area can be missed in the small pieces in a book. Some of the "luxury" Italian woolen merchants go to the other extreme, pasting postage stamp size swatches in to costly hard bound books. I have an unusual "Panama" tropical suiting from Drapers being made up in New York as we speak. If I had seen only a small cutting I would never have been interested in it. I will try to find an image of it as a cutting and compare it to the finished suit in the spring.

[Rowly]

Am I correct in thinking that Smiths in London have large bolts for you to look at, and if this is so, does it also apply to the W.Bill tweeds? Are there any other merchants who do this? It would certainly remove the risk of making choices which end up being disappointments !

[Costi]

Beyond the reliability issues of samples, I think choosing cloth from bolts is one of the pleasures of bespoke tailoring. Some of the most important features of a cloth (drape, apparent weight, how it ripples when it moves, the visual effect of a pattern) are impossible to check on a sample. It's like marrying on the basis of a portrait.

[A.Hacking]

In so many areas of life one finds as a customer that if an error is made but is recognised by the other party, who then takes prompt action to remedy the position, the relationship is strengthened rather than weakened.

I was recently witness to an incident when a tailor and his customor were standing in the street comparing a made up suit with a swatch book. They agreed that there was a difference and the manufacturer was contacted. I subsequently found out that the manufacturer both replaced the cloth and re-imbursed the tailor for his costs in making up the first suit, without argument. Whilst there was some inconvenience, the right thing was done.

Even as a witness I appreciate the service given by both the tailor and manufacturer and would value them more than suppliers who had not been tested in such a way.

[tteplitzmd]

In so many areas of life one finds as a customer that if an error is made but is recognised by the other party, who then takes prompt action to remedy the position, the relationship is strengthened rather than weakened.

I was recently witness to an incident when a tailor and his customor were standing in the street comparing a made up suit with a swatch book. They agreed that there was a difference and the manufacturer was contacted. I subsequently found out that the manufacturer both replaced the cloth and re-imbursed the tailor for his costs in making up the first suit, without argument. Whilst there was some inconvenience, the right thing was done.

Even as a witness I appreciate the service given by both the tailor and manufacturer and would value them more than suppliers who had not been tested in such a way.

Of course, having the actual bolt of the cloth on hand prior to cutting would have prevented this unfortunate scenario. With some types of cloth there are "dye lots" and for others there are subsequent "runs" if the cloth proves popular.

[mjh]

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