A Bespoke under Construction at Benson & Clegg (and Some Que

[Stetson]

I am no habitué of SR, ordinarily speaking, but I did have a suit made for me by Huntsman, in 1995 to be exact. Double breasted, pin stripes on a dense blue, it is in what I understand is the typical Huntsman construction : pronounced pinched waist , padded shoulders, highly structured. The jacket is excellently made and form fitting (though I don’t like the pronounced shoulder padding) but the trousers leave a lot to be desired. I am very slightly bow legged and it is not a pretty sight when the trouser creases fall outside of the knee line when walking!
A satisfying experience on the whole but I did not get any more bespoke suits made for a long time. Firstly, I live in India and, though I visit 3 or 4 times a year, it is usually too long between order, fittings and delivery. Next, there was the price to be considered (paid something like £ 1800 in 1995 net of VAT) and then those trousers (altered once or twice but not really satisfactory) and the shoulder padding.
Still, last October, I did go into Huntsman and first asked about some £ 200 or so standing to my credit from the VAT refund only to be told “Sorry Sir, we have ruled off all those old accounts and have no records”. So much for the “account” and so much for nearly 200 years of SR history and about £ 200 of my money. New management, you see! I do like my Huntsman suit, in spite of the trousers, but it is more than the tailoring, it is also a question of correct form when it comes to customer accounts and so on. So, I then began to think in terms of another tailor when I was back in London in January this year.
After some eliminations, I remembered Benson & Clegg, a name that probably may not come readily to mind when it comes to bespoke but they have been around a long time. Moreover, I saw a few complimentary references to their bespoke on the Net and a London friend thought they were very good. What settled the issue for me was that I have been going into that store for more than 15 years to get cuff links and the occasional striped tie. I know the two cutters there over the years, if only by sight, plus the odd exchange or two about their bespoke service, a sort of nodding acquaintance.
So, a known firm, yet a plunge into the unknown. But having been a customer of sorts over the years, and seeing the same people in situ, gives me a sort of confidence that they know what they are doing. And the price sounded right at £ 2500 incl VAT for a suit with standard lining and 3200 if silk lined (compare that with £ 1800 paid 15 years ago, though silk lined). Decided on the lower priced option because silk lining could pucker with wear and affect the drape of the coat. And £ 700 is 700, don’t want to spend so much on lining!
Chose a medium grey worsted with herringbone pattern, 11 oz because I thought it is good for year round use including in India. Don’t know if I should have gone for 14 oz. Forget the name of the fabric manufacturer but will ask again and mention it in a further post.
Single breasted, two button, side vents, a maroon lining which goes with the grey in contrast, coat sleeve buttons to be “live” and two inward (forward?) facing pleats on the trousers because I think inward pleats are better suited for worsted whereas, conversely, for chinos and cotton the outward pleats ensure a better drape and fall. At least, that is my opinion. Plain legs for the trousers (I am always undecided between plain trouser legs and turn ups) but am thinking if turn ups will be better. Will consult the firm.
Well, within three or four days of the order, Mr Tony Martin, the cutter who measured me (the firm has two cutters, the senior one being a Mr Austin) called me saying the pattern was ready. They had made a special effort to get it ready seeing that I am a visitor to the city.
To my surprise, the pattern had been made in cloth, not the one I had ordered but a flimsy fabric and not the brown paper that one would expect. I don’t know if there are other firms with this practice but I wonder if it is because a pattern in cloth would give both the customer and the cutter a better feel of the fit and of changes required. I must ask the next time.
This time round, it was properly ceremonial with both Mr Martin and Mr Austin being present with the latter casting a critical eye over both the pattern and the wearer and making several adjustments. I had made it a point to wear the Huntsman for the fitting, not to impress them but so that the cutters have an idea of how the subject looks in a suit and what is right as well as wrong with the one as worn.
I won’t go into the adjustments but the pattern gave me the impression that the suit will be somewhat middle of the road, neither the constructed Huntsman look nor the soft (deconstructed?) A & S look but something in between. Somewhat wide, but not too wide, lapels for the coat which is what I like too.
Next fitting will be when I am back in London end of Feb. But as I will be visiting for only a week, a further fit (which will take at least 2 weeks) will have to wait until a further visit in July, if not in late April. Will keep you posted of the pilgrim’s progress, with, hopefully, photos of the next fittings and, certainly, of the finished article.
Sorry to have gone on at such length but I thought the experience of a “virtual” 1st timer with a firm like B & C may be of interest to LL members. Has nayone used Benson & Clegg, I’d be interested in any feedback (though I am confident I’ve gone to good people). And wondering if I should change to a button fly.

[culverwood]

I use Benson and Clegg and would agree with your impression they they are very much middle of the road. The latest suits have been cut by Mr Austin, Daniel Williams cut my first items but he left a few years ago. Interestingly the cut was different Mr Austin's being more comfortable and Mr Williams's more "fitted" so there are differences in the styles of different cutters even in a small tailors such as Benson and Clegg. They certainly do not skimp on the fittings and will not let anything out the door they are not happy with.

[Costi]

Welcome to the Lounge, Stetson! Had I been in charge, I think I would have offered a £ 200 discount for a client that returns after 15 years, on that basis alone, even in absence of the old records. I wonder if the account would have been ruled off the same had YOU owed this amount... Nevertheless, 15 years is 15 years! They may keep records of patterns and measures and ordering history for returning customers for 100 years, but a 15 yo account of a one-off non-returning customers with £ 200 of VAT refund standing... it is at least excusable, I think.
The trial coat in an ordinary cloth is a rare, but respectable practice. See this topic for more: http://www.thelondonlounge.net/forum/vi ... f=4&t=9638
I like button flies, so I vote in favour.
And please do keep us posted on the progress - pictures would be most welcome and appreciated!

[Stetson]

Thanks, Costi, for the welcome, I think I am going to learn a lot from LL. And, wow, that was a great thread you sent me to, thanks again. After reading it I compliment myself on my choice of Benson & Clegg, that man Austin is certainly old school, I can see!

Will update in early March, with pics (I hope) and will seriously consider button flies.

And, Culverwood, thanks for your interesting feedback, good to know from a B & C customer.

[carl browne]

Stetson:

Huntsman went through bankruptcy (or whatever they call the British equivalent) between your visits, which wipes out credits like yours as a matter of law. I'm certain this would have not happened but for the very hard times they had. This is no excuse, but it is an explanation. I understand Huntsman's on solid ground now. Costi's right--very foolish not to have offered a discount on a subsequent purchase or settled your account law be damned.

[jlazarow]

Hi! Welcome to the lounge and Congrats on your new commission. I have not gone to Benson and Clegg before, but I do know Ken. He is a wonderful tailor and i think he will ensure you have a wonderful suit.

As for Huntsman, I think they are a great firm that went through some difficult times. They are certainly on solid footing now and their team, led by Peter Smith and Patrick Murphy are wonderful.

[Stetson]

Carl : Thanks, you are right about the bankruptcy at Huntsman and the rules about old accounts. So was Costi when he wrote "I wonder if the account would have been ruled off the same had YOU owed this amount... " (as a banker turned finance director, I understand that line of thinking very well, ha ha!). But my reaction was more to do with the dismissive reply .... in the old, pre-bankruptcy days, there was a nice Mr Maynard, very competent, self assured and courteous and extremely fussy when it came to letting the customer take the finished product home! I did not think I'd get that sort of personal service in the "new" firm and decided a smaller firm like B & C would give me more attention.

And Lazarow, thanks for the welcome and for the feedback on the tailors, you will see me here now and then as I'm really getting to know a lot from this forum. By the way, I called the tailors yesterday to arrange a fitting for the 1st March. They are ready and what is more, seeing I am in London the whole of that week, they will give me one more fitting in the next four days. Will post some pics after those fittings.

One question : how many LL members go for silk lined suits as opposed to viscose etc? It would seem to me most bespokes made these days are not silk lined (I do like silk but I like the £ 700 difference even better).

[jlazarow]

You are most welcome! I look forward to reading your feedback and seeing how the suit develops. It is great to hear that they will be able to have multiple fittings when you are next in London.

As for silk lining, I have nit done that. Or to put it another way, whatever Anderson, Huntsman, and Logsdail provide as standard is what I have on my suits.

[Costi]

Stetson, I see no functional benefit of having a coat lined in silk rather than Bemberg and unless you have an ardent vision about it (such as turning a couple of Hermes scarves into a silk lining), keep the money!

[Simon A]

Silk is not particularly hard wearing, so you may need to have your suit re-lined a few years down the track if you use it. Bemberg is quite hard wearing, breathes as well as silk or better, comes in a range of colours and is cheap.

[Rowly]

Hi and welcome ! I have been assured by a member of R J Weldon that 99% of Savile Row customers use Bemberg ( or ermazine, as they call it ) 90% of the time. Silk was used in the past. However, silk doesn't breathe as well as Bemberg, and Bemberg doesn't snag as readily as silk. Usually , silk is asked for if the suit is a very delicate cloth, with a very short expected lifespan.Customers who prefer a solid cloth with drape and longevity will usually avoid silk!.....I hope this helps...and good luck with your suit!

[Stetson]

Thanks, Rowly, for the authentic view from Weldon. I have an impression though that in times gone by (may be 20 or 30 years back) silk was by and large the standard lining for bespoke suits. But may be that is only an impression.

[Stetson]

Was back in London for about two weeks from the end of February. So, on the 1st of March, a further )"forward"?) fitting was arranged. Here are some pics, beginning with the trousers. As you can see, there are aspects of my figure which the tailors can do nothing about and it falls to me to achieve the necessary trimming in the months to come.







Before it occurred to me to take pictures, Mr Austin, one of the cutters, had ripped the right sleeve off! So, without the right sleeve then :













Followed another fitting four days later, this time only for the coat (as the trousers weren't ready). Couldn't take any pics as the battery in my camera had drained. So, we move to the fourth or final fitting (including the original "baste" fitting in cloth which was done during my previous visit in January) :





As you can see, the trousers need some more adjustments at the back (all duly noted) :



And please excuse those Timberlands I am wearing (I had turned up in my jeans for this fitting and the shoes - and possibly the clumsy oaf look - drew comment from Mr Austin!) :







Right. What do I think? The coat has turned out alright but I forgot to tell the cutters at the outset that I wanted high arm holes. They have since done their best but, next time, I am going to make sure that the arm holes are placed higher. The trousers are OK, I think (but the slope of the plain legs at the back looks too slanted to me, though I am assured that it is due to those Timberlands).

I insisted on button flies and think I have done the right thing. The suit will be ready soon but I am back in India and collection will be in April or May when I next visit London.

When I have used the suit a few times, I will be ordering another, a double breasted in a nice charcoal. I am thinking of woolen (with a nice nap and brushed finish) for this. Will it be too warm for Madras? Would I get a 13 or 14 oz woollen fabric (which I think should be OK in this weather)?

And above all, comments and suggestions please on the product now being assembled.

Will post pics of the finished article in May or June.

[DFR]

An inteersting pictorial of progress: Thanks.

When you do publish the views of the finished article will you include one of the interior of the coat to demonstrate their work in that quarter to complete the picture please?

[Stetson]

Hm! Just the one comment in 1o days .... Is the fir that bad?! If so, I'd really appreciate some guidance. Will, of course, be posting pics of the finished product in a couple of months, after collection in May. And ordering another from the same tailor! So, I would think there's still time to make any changes (albeit not very basic ones). Comments without fear or favour please!