Spoils of Napoli

[Costi]

You must have had great fun!
Too bad Gershwin is no more, it looks like "An American in Naples" would have sounded a thousand times better!

[tteplitzmd]

A very perceptive and well written article, Michael. Although I spent only a few days in Naples in June, I observed much of what you describe.

[lgcintra]

Dear Manton,

Thank you so much for this most valuable report. It is good to check that the advice in your book about favoring Italian ties is indeed heeded by its sponsor. Since you've mentioned Rubinacci, would it be too intrusive to ask the price range of both Marinella and Capelli ties sold "in loco"?

By the way, the SB is awesome!

All the best,
Luis

[Rowly]

Manton, thank you for taking the time to share your trip with us. It is extremely informative !

It is a bit difficult for non Neapolitans and foreigners to reach one of these tailors unless they are introduced by friends or persons they could know that are already their customers (a little treasure to be discovered).

It would be a lot of fun to go on a treasure hunt to find one of these hidden tailors!

This reality is kept alive by the fact that many neapolitans, even if not wealthy, have as cultural heritage the habit of having bespoke suits.

Is this cultural heritage not alive within other parts of Italy? How exciting it would be to find small but excellent tailors in small Italian towns that don't even appear on the tourist route?

What about Sicily? It would be great to hear such a detailed report about such a small place but with such a big reputation for excellence ! Can anyone contribute?

[Costi]

Is this cultural heritage not alive within other parts of Italy? How exciting it would be to find small but excellent tailors in small Italian towns that don't even appear on the tourist route?

That would be a bit like discovering you can eat well outside of the Michelin restaurant guide. I think the internet - though much as it does for bespoke tailoring - distorts reality by focusing too much on a few names, when in fact bespoke tailoring (even good bespoke tailoring) is a much more ubiquitous phenomenon. Working with a local tailor is more sensible and practical than with a travelling tailor. You can find talent everywhere - but it is also true that not everyone enjoys the quest.

What about Sicily? It would be great to hear such a detailed report about such a small place but with such a big reputation for excellence ! Can anyone contribute?

Wouldn't we be adding a few drops of water to the Sea?
I think we can find our own treasure islands - we were shown that it is possible.
"Since always in a tailoring shop near you."

[Rowly]

That would be a bit like discovering you can eat well outside of the Michelin restaurant guide. I think the internet - though much as it does for bespoke tailoring - distorts reality by focusing too much on a few names, when in fact bespoke tailoring (even good bespoke tailoring) is a much more ubiquitous phenomenon. Working with a local tailor is more sensible and practical than with a travelling tailor. You can find talent everywhere - but it is also true that not everyone enjoys the quest.

Absolutely! And the old-time quality artisans in any trade probably don't even know what the internet is. I think it's time to seek out an Italian conversation class, and plan my quest.

Wouldn't we be adding a few drops of water to the Sea?
I think we can find our own treasure islands - we were shown that it is possible.

Yes, our own treasure island where we can see a world in a grain of sand... I feel a turning of the tide !

[Costi]

"Old-time quality artisans in any trade" are an almost extinct species because the guilds no longer exist. The artisans of today follow a different philosophy of life and work from that of their ancestors, which is closer to the industrial model and the “marketing” approach.
As Balzac remarks in the prologue of one of his philosophical essays, on Caterina de Medici (where one of the main characters is the Queen's fur supplier, a respected member of his guild), two distinct structures held craftsmen together: the guild (which allowed them to maintain prices and avoid cutthroat competition, which leads to poverty and scarce quality) and the congregation (where they were brothers, as God’s children). These two structures were intertwined: in order to become a craftsman, an apprentice had to produce a piece of work dedicated to the patron Saint. The quality of the work of these old craftsmen was as good as they could produce to honour God Himself, whereas today’s philosophy is based on competition – which means just good enough for Mr. X or Mrs. Y and possibly a little better than the artisan nextdoor, who is not your brother, but your competitor. Balzac’s argument in favour of this explanation is the flourishing trade with antiques (already in his time), if anyone has any doubt that the old craftsmen used to produce work of a quality that no longer exists today. Their motivations and reasons no longer exist in today’s world. Few craftsmen today still hold these principles in their hearts and work with a passion and devotion worthy of Divinity, not just Man.

[Rowly]

Few craftsmen today still hold these principles in their hearts and work with a passion and devotion worthy of Divinity, not just Man.

If one is lucky enough to find one.. for me, the pleasure is not just about obtaining the end product, but the process of dealing with a Gentleman. I fear that whereas on one side there are marketeers willing to treat clients as punters and status gratification hunters, on the other side there are those who, having found a true artisan who is not driven by profit, and is a Gentleman with sensibilities,...they are ready to expolit him, seeing him as an easy target.

There is something

worthy of Divinity, not just Man.

when two men, in this cynical age, can engage in the age old relationship between bespoke customer and tailor, as true Gentlemen, and with the mutual respect that that entails.

[Costi]

Being a customer is an art, just as much as being a craftsman. To ask without commanding. To be firm without being stubborn. To take advice without pride. To pay without humiliating. To complain without insulting. To praise without reserve when satisfied. To be cordial and not condescending. To offer and expect respect. To understand what is possible. To understand the value of what you get.
Even the apparently simple matter of ordering dinner and managing the personnel at a restaurant is a complex dance that one may perform gracefully or step on everyone's toes.

[lgcintra]

Great advice, Costi. I would only add that your prescriptions relate even to something larger: to be an honest person. That´s the bottom line of what you preach. Thanks.

[Sammyo77]

Manton, How long would one need to be in naples to get a suit made by Solito or Rubinacci (assuming selecting cloth on the first day from in stock cloth)? Same question with Merolla for shirts.

I think Yale Cameron may not have received an answer to this question but I too would be interested to know whether Solito can do a suit in a relatively short turnaround (or whether anyone can recommend another tailor in Naples who might be able to do a fitting reasonably soon after initial order).

[Sammyo77]

As a footnote to my above post, I do not speak any Italian which seems to be a significant barrier to dealing with some Neapolitan tailors - any advice on this front would also be appreciated.

[alden]

Sammy

I do not know of any tailors who do quick turnarounds on fittings anymore. You would have to call around and ask. But Italian skills do help.

We measure and fit the next day on Fantasy Island, but that is far from Naples.

Shirtmakers should be more helpful in this regards. It really depends on how busy they are andhow much they want the business.

Sorry I cannot be more helpful

Cheers

[Onobitno]

Dear LL members,

As this is one of many threads that inspired me to visit Napoli, I thought it would be a good idea to share some pictures of my fabulous experience. I plan to create a small photo story at the end of March, once I pick up my finished garments.

My DB in british Fresco waiting for first fitting:


It is true what "they" say, once you go bespoke, you never return to rtw:


My brother is his SB, hopsack made in England for Drapers.


Napolitan SB in William Halstead wool cashmere blend. First fitting.


Thanks to everyone, who posted about their experiences. It was a great pleasure to visit Napoli and to meet all this wonderful and skilled people.

Cheers,
Leo

[cathach]

Dear LL members,

As this is one of many threads that inspired me to visit Napoli, I thought it would be a good idea to share some pictures of my fabulous experience. I plan to create a small photo story at the end of March, once I pick up my finished garments.

Thanks to everyone, who posted about their experiences. It was a great pleasure to visit Napoli and to meet all this wonderful and skilled people.

Cheers,
Leo

Looking good! Cheers for the photos. Would love to hear more about how you get on. As a matter of interest did you try any shirtmakers?