Hollywood icons and their wardrobe choices

[A.Hacking]

Reading the Wall Street II posts leads me to ask about the wardrobe choices of the movie stars of the 30's, 40's and 50's whom we may regard as good dressers.

How much of the style of Cary Grant or Fred Astaire was down to them, how much was down to the studio's wardrobe departments or did they pick it up from Apparel Arts and Esquire?

Who actually bespoke that suit in North by Northwest ?

Did personal stylists exist at that time ?

I don't doubt that over the years these men learned how to dress and what worked for them but how did they get started ?

[storeynicholas]

Not sure about Fred but, certainly after CG bucked the studio system, he retained the right to dress himself in the films. I don't think that the stylists, such as Edith Head, got involved in the men's clothes, which would have been easily chosen from the context of the scenes. Another one who wore his own clothes was certainly Robert Donat.
NJS

[Richard3]

The male stars during the "golden era" obviously often had clauses in their contracts stating that they had to provide a modern wardrobe at their own expenses. I have seen such a contract clause in a Clark Gable bio.

[Daedalus]

(...)

Who actually bespoke that suit in North by Northwest ?

(...)

According to Richard Torregrossa, author of Cary Grant: A Celebration of Style, the suit is by Kilgour French Stanbury.

[storeynicholas]

Here we go again...
NJS

[A.Hacking]

Fear not NJS, I have no interest in re-opening that can of worms, merely wishing to know who walked into the tailors, selected the cloth, chose the style and parted with the cash for sixteen suits.
I would be surprised if Richard3's comments that the star paid for the wardrobe would apply in this instance, particularly since CG was reputed to have his tailor put extremely deep pockets in his trousers

[storeynicholas]

A Hacking - I believe that CG often used Hong Kong tailors too, for the economy and some stars (Gable included) once their stars had risen, bought RTW. I did once try to find out where the NNW suits were ordered and I seem to recall a still from a film (found by sator), suggesting that a Beverley Hills' tailor might have been involved. I dare say that all the records are lost and, if they are not, their keepers are unexcited by our curiosity.
NJS

[couch]

I believe A. Hacking was not reviving the Quintino vs. Kilgour debate, but rather wondering whether it was Hitchcock (or his production people) who commissioned/paid for the suits in this particular case, given the multiples required, or CG himself. It is not at all impossible that CG might have chosen the tailor and and placed the order, with the production budget footing the bill; if the anecdote about Hitchcock playing a prank on CG by having the same tailor make duplicates of the suit for Landau is true, it's also possible that Hitch (or the studio) selected the tailor and/or paid him.

IMdbPro lists two possibly relevant pieces of trivia, though the more pertinent is unattributed and so virtually useless:

"In the DVD documentary, Eva Marie Saint recounts how Alfred Hitchcock, dissatisfied with the costumes the studio had designed for her, marched her to Bergdorf Goodman and personally picked out clothes for her to wear."

"When Martin Landau first sees Cary Grant, he says, 'He's a well-tailored one.' All of Landau's suits for the film were made by Grant's personal tailor."

The movie was written by Ernest Lehman at Hitch's suggestion and produced by MGM. The Ernest Lehman archives are at the University of Texas' Harry Ransom Center. It's possible though unlikely that the Lehman papers might turn up the answer to the question. It would be more likely that MGM's accounts for the production would show whether the production paid for the suits or not. I have dropped an email to the curator of film at the Ransom Center to ask whether he knows whether the accounts might survive and if so whether they remain with the (financially shaky) studio or may be at a research institution. I'll let you know if I hear anything useful.

Others may have seen this, but I did run across the following in a George Frazier article from the September 1960 issue of Esquire, reposted on Dandyism.net, which confirms that Grant did use Quintino (this is from an annotated list of best-dressed American men):

"CARY GRANT — Although Grant, who is fifty-six, favors such abominations as large tie knots and claims to have originated the square-style breast-pocket handkerchief, he is so extraordinarily attractive that he looks good in practically anything. He insists upon tight armholes in his suit jackets, finds the most comfortable (and functional) of all underwear to be women’s nylon panties. Something of a maverick as to tailors, he now goes to Quintino (around $225 a suit) in Beverly Hills, California, and, whenever possible, certain of the preposterously low-priced geniuses in Hong Kong."

[couch]

Well, that was fast. A. Hacking, or any others of you (NJS?) who care to pursue this question, here are the leads I got from Steve Wilson, Curator of Film at the Harry Ransom Center--possible 1) production accounts or 2) wardrobe list/budget:

Hi Randall,
Yes, this is an interesting topic. My best advice is to contact the Margaret Herrick Library at the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences (the Oscar people.) They have the MGM archive and they also have Robert Boyle's papers. As production designer, Boyle would have supervised costumes as well as art direction, make up and special effects. Perhaps the MGM papers will include a wardrobe list or budget.
Best of luck with your search.
Steve
PS I'll pass on your kind words to the Conservation Dept.

Steve Wilson
Curator of Film
Harry Ransom Center
The University of Texas at Austin
P.O. Box 7219
Austin, Texas 78713-7219
P: 512-471-6352
http://www.hrc.utexas.edu

[storeynicholas]

Couch - these are excellent leads. At the moment I have my work cut out with too many projects but, unless someone else cracks this first, I'll try to come back to it asap.
best,
NJS

[Richard3]

"When Martin Landau first sees Cary Grant, he says, 'He's a well-tailored one.' All of Landau's suits for the film were made by Grant's personal tailor."

Well, I remember to have read that Grant insisted on getting Landau`s (who seems to have had about Grant`s size) movie suits for free after filming...

[Mark Seitelman]

Reading the Wall Street II posts leads me to ask about the wardrobe choices of the movie stars of the 30's, 40's and 50's whom we may regard as good dressers.

How much of the style of Cary Grant or Fred Astaire was down to them, how much was down to the studio's wardrobe departments or did they pick it up from Apparel Arts and Esquire?

* * *

Did personal stylists exist at that time ?

I don't doubt that over the years these men learned how to dress and what worked for them but how did they get started ?

The clothes were not an accident.

The look of a film, from the sets to the costumes, were all highly controlled at the major studios, such as MGM, Paramount, RKO, Fox, and Columbia.

Generally, the director collaborated with the production designer. In some cases, such as a hands-on producer like David O. Selznick, the producer would get into the act.

Some directors were initially set designers. E.g., Mitchell Leisen and Vincente Minnelli (also a costume designer).

In the case of Grant, Astaire, and the others, they all worked in the golden age of mens clothing. The general public were much more interested in formal dress. It was not a hobby then. The classic look was the culture. There would have been a collaboration among the actor, the production designer, and the tailor.

Often the mens clothes were made in the studio. Multiples had to be made and discarded. The major studios had the crafts departments all in-house.

Often, the lead characters would have screen tests of the costumes. I recall seeing one of Judy Garland's gingham dresses from the "Wizard of Oz". This dress was used for a screen test to see how it photographed. Incidentally, the dress was auctioned.

I also recall some costume screen tests of James Mason in "A Star Is Born".

Finally, the "personal stylist" did not exist. Today, "personal stylists" are basically marketers working in conjunction with name brands and designers who seek to have their frocks worn at award shows.

[Jordan Marc]

Couch:

Although I'm well-acquainted with Geoge Frazier's article in the 1960 issue of Esquire, I take issue with his notion that "Cary Grant favors such abominations as large tie knots." It's fairly well-known that
the actor had an unusually thick neck (17 1/2-18 inches) that was reputed to be the result of acrobatic skills developed as a young man when he was in the Bob Pender music hall troupe in England. Grant favored tall collars (a good 2 inches with a spread) to compensate for the size of his neck and complemented them with a perfectly proportioned four-in-hand or half windsor knot with either a center dimple or double dimples. Nothing abominable about it, which is more than I can say about Frazier.

JMB

[couch]

JMB,

I quite agree that Grant's knots were (at least the ones I've seen) always well proportioned, as were his collars. Perhaps Frazier considered them abominably large in comparison to the knots of the then-fashionable skinny ties, as for instance this worn by Rod Serling of Twilight Zone fame at about that time:



Or perhaps Frazier was just wrong.

[Jordan Marc]

Good point, Couch. Fashion aside, the size of a man's collar and width of his tie has to be proportionate to the wearer. Grant's height was 6' 1 1/2" whereas Serling's height was 5'4". Big versus small, both men were dressed appropriately. The easiest way to figure out the proper proportion for collar height and the size of a tie knot is to make your tie the same width as the lapels of your coat. It creates balance. As to the style of the collar, leave that to your shirtmaker who can run up different patterns on oaktag (heavyweight pattern paper) that can be temporarily fixed to your neck with a button or two to see which looks best. If you're a home sewer, you can actually create your own collar styles. All you need is a copy of David Page Coffin's marvellous book Shirtmaking published by The Taunton Press and available from Amazon.

JMB