http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J_cZkDdUcWo&
The first 28 seconds of this youtube video might be of interest to the LL membership.
DoW video
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Last edited by m-lan on Sat Nov 13, 2010 5:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
The overcoat worn by the man who appears in the background at 19-22 seconds of this film looks great. It is a long, single breasted great coat with a set sleeve, ghille collar and belt. Can any of our local tech wizards get a better shot of this coat. I am curious about the pockets. It is an equestrian setting. Is this maybe a "paddock coat" variant in SB?
Michael
Michael
Michael,
Enlarging this low-res video, a few things appear likely, as near as I can make out (see still below):
The coat is belted with a knot in front, trench or polo coat style; the cuffs appear to be gathered by tabs or straps as in a trench coat; the cloth moves and gathers with some stiffness rather than the flowing folds I'd expect with a typical overcoating; the pockets are deep with rectangular bottoms (the near one is bulging from its contents, outlining the shape) but it's difficult to tell with certainty whether they are patch pockets; the shadow at the top of the pockets suggests that they are flapped horizontally, but I can't tell for sure; there is a very deep center vent in the long and very full skirt, which looks as though it may be buttoned partway down--I don't detect a gusset but one may be there. The sleeves look set-in but may be saddle raglans with the sleevehead of the jacket beneath forming the defining shape at the shoulder. The collar looks convertible.
The combination makes me wonder whether this may not be a riding mac of some sort, in a water-resistant or lined cloth (thus the stiffness). Here are a couple of similar silhouettes from Tutee's "Out of Town Clothes" post; though these are raglan sleeves, the text suggests both set-in and raglan were worn:
One of the most fashionable looking coats that passed in review in the paddock was the fly-front raglan style, extremely full cut in the skirt, borrowing somewhat from the toga mode. This model made its appearance in whitish grey rubberized cotton and tan worsted gabardine of fine texture, the latter draping beautifully. Some of the polo players who turned out for the races wore very light-weight rubberized coats in raglan style with button-through front. Belted double-breasted coats that had a noticeable flare to the bottom were worn in worsted and cotton gabardines and rubberized cotton. The regulation trench coat was seen, and a few smartly dressed men wore single- breasted belted raglan coats, usually in rubberized cotton. Some who came through the general admission gate were wearing oiled cotton coats {Men’s Wear, Sept, 1934).
Enlarging this low-res video, a few things appear likely, as near as I can make out (see still below):
The coat is belted with a knot in front, trench or polo coat style; the cuffs appear to be gathered by tabs or straps as in a trench coat; the cloth moves and gathers with some stiffness rather than the flowing folds I'd expect with a typical overcoating; the pockets are deep with rectangular bottoms (the near one is bulging from its contents, outlining the shape) but it's difficult to tell with certainty whether they are patch pockets; the shadow at the top of the pockets suggests that they are flapped horizontally, but I can't tell for sure; there is a very deep center vent in the long and very full skirt, which looks as though it may be buttoned partway down--I don't detect a gusset but one may be there. The sleeves look set-in but may be saddle raglans with the sleevehead of the jacket beneath forming the defining shape at the shoulder. The collar looks convertible.
The combination makes me wonder whether this may not be a riding mac of some sort, in a water-resistant or lined cloth (thus the stiffness). Here are a couple of similar silhouettes from Tutee's "Out of Town Clothes" post; though these are raglan sleeves, the text suggests both set-in and raglan were worn:
One of the most fashionable looking coats that passed in review in the paddock was the fly-front raglan style, extremely full cut in the skirt, borrowing somewhat from the toga mode. This model made its appearance in whitish grey rubberized cotton and tan worsted gabardine of fine texture, the latter draping beautifully. Some of the polo players who turned out for the races wore very light-weight rubberized coats in raglan style with button-through front. Belted double-breasted coats that had a noticeable flare to the bottom were worn in worsted and cotton gabardines and rubberized cotton. The regulation trench coat was seen, and a few smartly dressed men wore single- breasted belted raglan coats, usually in rubberized cotton. Some who came through the general admission gate were wearing oiled cotton coats {Men’s Wear, Sept, 1934).
Looks to me a Mackintosh, which I remember were common at hunt meets years ago, and very similar to that still sold by Cordings: Hampton Mackintosh.
Couch
Thanks for the assist. The cloth looks heavy to me, patch pockets and it clearly is a set sleeve. Now take a look at the back of this coat and imagine it viewed from the side (paddock coat April, 1935.)
Or it may be a bit like this coat but in an SB design.
I am not sure it is a simple Mackintosh though it surely is an equestrian coat. Here is the Cordings coat, the Hampton.
Cheers
Thanks for the assist. The cloth looks heavy to me, patch pockets and it clearly is a set sleeve. Now take a look at the back of this coat and imagine it viewed from the side (paddock coat April, 1935.)
Or it may be a bit like this coat but in an SB design.
I am not sure it is a simple Mackintosh though it surely is an equestrian coat. Here is the Cordings coat, the Hampton.
Cheers
Michael,
You may well be right about the set-in sleeve, though moments early in the clip like this introduce some doubt:
The long flared skirt has a single center vent or pleat (visible later in the clip, when the wearer turns and the skirt sweeps out behind). I now think it possible that it is simply a single inverted box pleat in the center rather than a vent, though the latter would make more sense when sitting a horse. The wearer is wearing riding boots and spurs:
The cuff tabs run across the top of the sleeve and button on the side, as in the first two AA illustrations I included above. The cloth indeed seems heavy, but also seems to move stiffly. The creases almost pop in and out when the arms are bent, for instance, and the smooth areas of the skirt stay very smooth rather than rippling. This makes me think it may be a rubberized cloth, or perhaps a very heavy gabardine.
You're right that the silhouette is not much like the Cordings Hampton, but very much like the first two AA illustrations. The color is clearly not the oyster shown in the first illustration, but could plausibly be a tan as shown in the town picture.
The similarity of the coat in the video to the paddock coat and topstitched overcoat in the illustrations you provide seems to my eye mostly in the silhouette--the midcalf length, widely flared skirt, relatively high waist, and full sleeve. I think if one were considering a paddock-type coat commission, the DoW clip is mostly valuable in showing how stylish that silhouette can be in motion. The sweep of the skirt and the volume at the shoulder (side view with arms down), along with the tapered sleeve effect suggested by the tab-gathered cuffs, carry considerable dash. The two box pleats at the sides in the paddock coat, while adding more weight to the garment than a single center pleat, would I think be more elegant and less fussy both for sitting (if ever necessary in such a coat) and when walking, where the voluminous folds might impinge on the rearward leg when walking.
You may well be right about the set-in sleeve, though moments early in the clip like this introduce some doubt:
The long flared skirt has a single center vent or pleat (visible later in the clip, when the wearer turns and the skirt sweeps out behind). I now think it possible that it is simply a single inverted box pleat in the center rather than a vent, though the latter would make more sense when sitting a horse. The wearer is wearing riding boots and spurs:
The cuff tabs run across the top of the sleeve and button on the side, as in the first two AA illustrations I included above. The cloth indeed seems heavy, but also seems to move stiffly. The creases almost pop in and out when the arms are bent, for instance, and the smooth areas of the skirt stay very smooth rather than rippling. This makes me think it may be a rubberized cloth, or perhaps a very heavy gabardine.
You're right that the silhouette is not much like the Cordings Hampton, but very much like the first two AA illustrations. The color is clearly not the oyster shown in the first illustration, but could plausibly be a tan as shown in the town picture.
The similarity of the coat in the video to the paddock coat and topstitched overcoat in the illustrations you provide seems to my eye mostly in the silhouette--the midcalf length, widely flared skirt, relatively high waist, and full sleeve. I think if one were considering a paddock-type coat commission, the DoW clip is mostly valuable in showing how stylish that silhouette can be in motion. The sweep of the skirt and the volume at the shoulder (side view with arms down), along with the tapered sleeve effect suggested by the tab-gathered cuffs, carry considerable dash. The two box pleats at the sides in the paddock coat, while adding more weight to the garment than a single center pleat, would I think be more elegant and less fussy both for sitting (if ever necessary in such a coat) and when walking, where the voluminous folds might impinge on the rearward leg when walking.
Last edited by couch on Tue Sep 21, 2010 3:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Couch
I think the dimples that appear at the sleevehead do indicate a set sleeve. Your analysis of the chic factor in this coat is excellent and on target.
I think something like this but in an SB version with a ghillie collar, full shoulder, tapered sleeves, tabbed cuffs, full skirt might be a place to start. As regards cloth, maybe a heavy whipcord or cavalry twill in tan.
Michael
I think the dimples that appear at the sleevehead do indicate a set sleeve. Your analysis of the chic factor in this coat is excellent and on target.
I think something like this but in an SB version with a ghillie collar, full shoulder, tapered sleeves, tabbed cuffs, full skirt might be a place to start. As regards cloth, maybe a heavy whipcord or cavalry twill in tan.
Michael
Glad to be of assistance. I have extracted 63 images (one per second) of said clip and uploaded it here:alden wrote:The overcoat worn by the man who appears in the background at 19-22 seconds of this film looks great. It is a long, single breasted great coat with a set sleeve, ghille collar and belt. Can any of our local tech wizards get a better shot of this coat. I am curious about the pockets. It is an equestrian setting. Is this maybe a "paddock coat" variant in SB?
Michael
http://bars.rug.nl/download/3e87ef87000df2d5
Available for download until October 29, 2010. The alternative is a commercial upload service with loads of ads. Please feel free to host the file if you are able to.
(Caps.zip, 8,65 Mb)
Great thread. Thank you for the links and the pics.
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