Bespoke shoes from John Lobb

[oxford]

Good afternoon !

I recently got a gift certificate for a pair of bespoke shoes from John Lobb (St. James). Since I have never had any bespoke shoes made for me, I would greatly appreciate any input from you about what to consider when placing the first order.
To be honest, I already got a nice collection of British RTW shoes (C&J, Church, Green, etc.) and have shoes in most styles. I understand that for the first pair of bespoke shoes, one would go with a classic design, and I was told it would be advantageous to order lace-ups rather than loafers (I suppose that has something to do with the fit of the first shoe being amenable to slight corrections by adjusting the laces).

My preliminary choice for my first pair of bespoke shoes would be to order a pair of simple oxfords made of cordovan leather with double leather soles (I mostly wear smart casual clothes to work and only rarely have a chance to wear a suit, so I suppose, I would be well of ordering more casual shoes to wear with corduroy or chino trousers).

Are there any things to consider about shoes styles or ordering, that as a bespoke rookie, I may not be aware of ? And does anybody have experience with ordering Lobb shoes and would be able to comment on the ordering process, fittings, trial shoes, etc.

Thank you very much for your help !

[dopey]

If I were in your [soon to be] shoes, my first choice would be a pair of classic black oxfords - probably punchcaps - or maybe brown wingtips.

If you tend towards the more casual, another item high on my wish list would be a pair of plain toe wholecut bluchers (chasse), maybe burgundy or the browns (as below). I believe that would also look great from Lobb.

[ay329]

I would shy away from Cordovan...as most English bespoke makers dislike working with it...especially on a first commission

I would also recommend against a double sole...unless ordering a boot.

John Lobb St. James has some excellent monk strap shoe designs and some side gussetted designs (aka Lazyman shoes). I think the OP would get much greater mileage out of these designs than a formal oxford design (just my opinion)

To find the monks or elastic sided shoes, go to Lobb's site....click on Mens shoes...then click Elastic Sided Shoes...or try Monk Shoes (especially the full brogue model without a heel counter)

They inherited some gorgeous squared and chiseled toe designs/lasts when they purchased Tuczek (a rival bespoke shoe maker in 1970).

The folks at Lobb will show you what a Tuczek shaped squared and chisled toe last will look like...just in case you seek an alternative to the traditional rounded Lobb last.

[Costi]

I'm with Dopey on this one. I've had these shoes made a few years ago (not with Lobb):

and they proved one of my best inspirations (double soles, waterproof stitch - bad weather shoes). They still get a lot of wear. There are so many perfumers that do fancy perfumes with Lavender, but who makes a classic pure Lavender cologne anymore? Very few. You are dealing with an artist capable of great refinement, be yourself refined and go with the best Cordovan on a simple last, like the one pictured above.

[culverwood]

I would not go for cordovan, as has been said before the bespoke English makers do not like it or rate it.

I would also not recommend a side gusseted shoe unless you have plenty of time. My first bespoke shoes were side gusseted and I love them however this type of shoe leaves no ability for adjustment that laces do, so the last has to be right first time. It was only after a couple of try-ons and remakes that it took more than a year before I got my shoes. Your last will probably take a couple of shoes to get exactly right and a laced shoe allows a little room for manoeuvre.

If you are going to wear them with cords or jeans how about a shoe like the



or the Foster and Son Apron 3 tie Derby Model: 2360
or the J M Weston Chasse

Choosing bespoke shoes is like having first choice of the chocolate box at Christmas, do you choose the caramel, the nougat or the praline, they are all lovely but different.

[alden]

There are so many perfumers that do fancy perfumes with Lavender, but who makes a classic pure Lavender cologne anymore? Very few.

Les Plus Belles Lavandes de Caron

[Jordan Marc]

Oxford, you're a lucky fellow to be given a gift of a bespoke pair of shoes made by Lobb of St. James!

However, cordovan lace-ups with double soles is a bad choice for a first commission with one of the finest bootmakers extant, if not the finest. The best cordovan is cut from the hind quarters of a horse, and one of the finest suppliers of the hide is Horween in Chicago. Like everything else in the world (cameras, computers, brand-new housing, etc.), horse's ass is not what it used to be years ago, which may well explain why bootmakers are reluctant to make shoes out of the stuff.

For your first pair of Lobbs, go with a classic pair of cap-toe lace-ups with a punched and pinked seam in
black box calf. Save the black and brown half- and full-brogue lace-ups as well as the pebble grain leather and suede lace-ups for later commissions. The same goes for crocodile shoes. What kind of man wears reptile lace-ups or slip-ons?! Hollywood moguls and Bernie Madoff wannabes, I suppose. Gaudy and uncomfortable you don't need. Keep the style of your shoes classic and take good care of them, even if your style of dress is more casual than business-oriented.

By the way, when you're measured at Lobb, ask for a tour of the establishment so you can see and understand the incredible craftsmanship involved in making shoes. If you're given a tour, no doubt you will be shown the Library of Lasts. Author Michael Arlen called it The Haunted Ballroom. You'll be in good company.

JMB

[oxford]

Good afternoon !

Thank you very much for your suggestions. I understand that for a first pair of shoes, I should not go with Cordovan leather as it can no longer be obtained in a quality suitable for bespoke shoes.

As I indicated initially, I will of course choose a very classic and simple shoe design for the first bespoke pair, and I did not even remotely consider crocodile leather as an option...

Since I hardly ever wear black shoes (except for the rare occasion that requires a suit or formal wear), I think brown would be a more versatile and useful colour for this pair of shoes.

What I do not understand, however, is why I should not choose double leather soles. Several of the shoes of which pictures were posted here, seem to have a thicker if not double leather sole, and for more casual shoes, a thicker sole adds some robustness and "masculinity" (I do not like the combination of thin soles and considerably high heels for men's shoes as shown on the Lobb homepage for quite a few of Lobb's dressier shoes - it reminds me of South American dancers or particular heads of state in certain European countries).

Thank you for your input so far !

[Mark Seitelman]

I would stay away from cordovan if you have not worn it.

People either love it or hate it. I feel that it is very uncomfortable and unforgiving. Since this is not an impulse purchase, buy and wear Alden cordovans for a few months to see if you like its feel.

For this special pair of shoes, which you should wear and enjoy frequently, I would stick to the a more comfortable leather, such as calf skin.

Good luck.

[oxford]

I would stay away from cordovan if you have not worn it. People either love it or hate it. I feel that it is very uncomfortable and unforgiving. Since this is not an impulse purchase, buy and wear Alden cordovans for a few months to see if you like its feel.

I own about five pairs of Cordovan leather shoes from different makers (e.g. Alden, Crockett & Jones) and like them very much. I do not think they are more uncomfortable than any other shoe (except for the slightly thicker leather making them shoes for slightly cooler days). However, I like the way the leather ages and fades to different shades of red and brown - therefore I would consider Cordovan leather very nice for more casual shoes. However, if there are quality issues with Horween, I will not risk getting a first-rate maker to produce shoes from second-rate material.

[culverwood]

I am probably teaching my grandmother to suck eggs but you may or may not have seen this extract from an article by Tony Gaziano of G&G:

"Cordovan! It’s big in the USA but used for all the wrong reasons. It has a treatment on top of it which in my mind makes it look like rubber, and it cannot breathe that well either. Cordovan is 3 to 4 mm thick which causes countless headaches to shoemakers. Cordovan also looks too rustic for everyday shoes. But customers keep ordering it in oxfords and full brogues. If it is suitable for anything, it would be a chukka boot or plain derby with a rubber sole, and that’s it."

[Mark Seitelman]

I would stay away from cordovan if you have not worn it. People either love it or hate it. I feel that it is very uncomfortable and unforgiving. Since this is not an impulse purchase, buy and wear Alden cordovans for a few months to see if you like its feel.

I own about five pairs of Cordovan leather shoes from different makers (e.g. Alden, Crockett & Jones) and like them very much. I do not think they are more uncomfortable than any other shoe (except for the slightly thicker leather making them shoes for slightly cooler days). However, I like the way the leather ages and fades to different shades of red and brown - therefore I would consider Cordovan leather very nice for more casual shoes. However, if there are quality issues with Horween, I will not risk getting a first-rate maker to produce shoes from second-rate material.

Since you are in the cordovan fans' camp, go for it! I tried two pairs of Alden loafers, and I gave them away after a few months.

I have not heard about quality issues regarding Horween. Indeed, it is one of the few cordovan tanneries. I would think that Lobb would make sure that it uses the best skins available whether they be from Horween or another tannery. I would think that Lobb would not be troubled in rejecting skins which did not meet its standards. I would discuss this with Lobb.


Good luck.

[Gruto]

Speaking of John Lobb, I took some photos when I was there in July:

[Jordan Marc]

Oxford, I wasn't suggesting you had any intention of commissioning a pair of crocodile shoes. No one in his right mind should. Reptile of any kind tends to be stiff and uncomfortable when made into shoes. Elephant ear and hippo hide, too, for that matter. About the only thing exotic skins will do for you is to lighten your wallet considerably. As leathers go, they're atrocious and vulgar.

Regarding double soles and built-up heels. Depending upon the style of the the shoe you choose, the sole under the ball of your foot and toes will be somewhat thicker and taper gracefully as it approaches the
the leading edge of the heel. Never mind the pictures on the Lobb site, which can be misleading, it all has to do with creating a graceful balance for the shoe in question. By the same token, the heel on Lobb shoes
isn't built-up, it merely follows the curve of your heel right down to the floor. Another graceful touch from
Lobb, not to mention other great bootmakers such as Gaziano & Girling and Cleverly.

JMB

[Costi]

There are so many perfumers that do fancy perfumes with Lavender, but who makes a classic pure Lavender cologne anymore? Very few.

Les Plus Belles Lavandes de Caron

Mmm... so I should try it. I hope it's not anything like Pour un Homme, though, overwhelmed by sweet vanilla...
So far I have found nothing better than Santa Maria Novella's Lavanda Imperiale - pure, dry and unsweetened, like a bar of Bonnat's 100% cacao chocolate.

On shoes - I like your direction, oxford: brown, casual, simple. I'd say stay with it, whether you'll choose calf or cordovan. Anyway, I am confident that if JL doesn't advise you against cordovan, it is able to offer the best quality. And why not double soles - you'll wear the shoes three seasons a year (especially if they're in cordovan, again) without fear of bad weather. A casual shoe in brown cordovan on double soles with a simple line is very versatile, for town and country.
Simple subjects are the most difficult to treat well, so don't think you'd be wasting JL's talents by not having some "specialty" shoes made, on the contrary!