If I Can Have Only One Cloth Weight ....

[J. Cogburn]

I am in need of advice. I have lost about 60 pounds over the past year and am in need of a new wardrobe (and thank you, Michael, for encouraging your readers to do this – it was your advice on this matter that, in part, convinced me that this was an effort worth undertaking). Having given the matter some thought, I have decided to go for quality over quantity but, for financial reasons, this will mean only five bespoke suits.

If I lived in a less variable climate, this wouldn’t necessarily present a major problem. But alas, I live in Washington, DC, land of horrific heat and humidity during the summer and cold – but rarely very cold – winters. Hence, whatever I commission has to be worn year-round. Happily, I am only outdoors when I walk to the car to drive to work (20 yards), walk to lunch or the gym during mid-day (10 minutes each way, max) and when I am out-and-about on business travel. My office is nicely climate controlled.

Since losing all of that weight, I have become much less sensitive to the heat. In fact, if anything, I have become more sensitive to the cold! Hence, I am thinking about heeding the advice I have read here and going with heavier cloth. After all, if I’m going for quality, it would be nice to get as nice a drape as I can and minimize wrinkles. But how heavy should I go? Can I wear 13 oz. cloth and deal with the heat by simply shedding the coat when I go outside for lunch in the summer (a sartorial no-no, I realize, but standard operating procedure for men in Washington)? That seems like a reasonable answer to me, but there are the occasional business trips during the summer to Arizona, Florida, etc. – places where a 13 oz. suit just might conceivably kill me. I could of course buy some cheaper made-to-measure or off-the-rack suits for the summer when the bespoke wardrobe is simply too uncomfortable (if I indeed find that to be the case).

The devil of it is that I cannot really “try-out” a 13 oz. suit and see what happens. I have to make a blind call as it were. Hence, I ask the veterans of the London Lounge to offer their advice.

[Yale Cameron]

J. Cogburn,

I would say 10-11 oz is really the ideal year round suiting. this is based on my experience and fro mthe mouths of tailors. I live in Arizona which is of course extremely hot. Though I must say, I think DC summers are even worse than our summers do to the humidity and sweating that it causes. I wouldnt worry about business trips out here in the summer. No one wears a coat in the summer outside. hang it on the door when they get into the office and just put it on for certain meetings or whatever. I have a 10 oz smith woolens and 2 10 oz Lesser suits. I think they are probably the best weight for year round suiting. True summer weight cloths, I don't think will be warm enough for your needs and obviously won't have quite the drape or diurability you seem to note. I too would like to get some heavier suits and some lighter ones. Alas, I think I will reserve that until the wardrobe has enough real year-rounders in it. I would not go straight for the 13 oz if I were you. I would stick in the 10-11 oz range until you have enough where you can start rotating.

[Costi]

One of the lessons I learned with the Clothclub is that summer cloth (Brisa, Mistral) can be made heavier if it is porous enough to ensure good ventilation: it will look better and actually feel better than more lightweight cloth that is more dense. So "13 oz" or "10 oz" doesn't tell the whole story - you need to look at how the cloth is woven. I find that a Brisa-type fresco may well be worn 3 seasons, except perhaps on cold, windy days. But in my opinion that is as "all season" as it gets with cloth: for the colder months you really need a suit in a warmer cloth that is not wearable in summer.
If I were you, perhaps I'd go for 2 spring-summer-autumn suits in a more porous weave and 3 autumn-winter-spring suits in warmer worsteds and flannel, if my classification makes any sense. This way, instead of having 5 similar suits made that are only theoretically ballanced for all seasons, you get a more varied and stylish wardrobe and achieve an overall balance between warm weather and cool weather suits. You can also style them differently, according to what different cloths inspire - a fresco, a flannel, a worsted... The "all-in-one" approach doesn't work too well in wardrobe matters, in my view. And 5 suits is a generous enough target that you can think of some variety and season-specific dress, leaving for later on an all-summer linen suit or all-winter heavy tweed one.

[carl browne]

I can only suggest that you give this lots of thought; I've been experimenting with different cloths over the last few years and have gotten some surprising results:

I wore a 20 oz calvary twill in 85 degree F. weather yesterday, and wasn't terribly uncomfortable, though I won't make this a habit. (Cloth is heavy, but thin, so not a great insulator. But the sun can't seem to get through it to heat me up.)

I have two 15 oz fresco suits that have me shivering at 65 degrees. I bought them as year round suits for Southern California. They're not! (The slightest breeze goes right through them; hard, dry, thin cloth also a poor insulator)

I have an 18 oz cheviot tweed suit that I can comfortably wear in my heated and air conditioned office. I bought that for chilly rainy days in winter, but I've been wearing it until the first of July. (Warm, but the cloth for mine is not very tightly woven, so a breeze will keep you a little cooler than you might expect.)

I have a 12 oz flannel that's warmer than the 18 oz cheviot. (Nappy cloth, more tightly woven.)

I detest my 9 oz super 150s worsted. I shiver at 65 degrees, get hot and clammy at 75 degrees. (The thin cloth is a poor insulator so I feel cold in chilly weather, yet it is so tightly woven that it doesn't breathe and traps body heat and persperation under it. It also offers no protection from the heat of the sun.)


Seems to me that the rule of thumb is that you can go heavier if your cloth is thin and open weave and has a dry hard finish, but you'll need to go lighter if the cloth is thick, nappy, and/or tightly woven.

[carl browne]

How formal is your environment? You might have good luck staying comfortable with odd coats and trousers of varying weights, which you could mix up. You can get away with heavier trousers in hot weather and lighter coats in cool weather because it is your trunk and not your extremeties that determine how warm or cool you'll be.

C

[carl browne]

Costi, how heavy is the Mistral? I didn't know it was a Summer cloth. How does it wear?

[Yale Cameron]

To clarify my earlier post, I was referring just to worsteds. I have not gotten any open weave cloth. I have not seen any frescos that I really liked the look of. Costi or Carl, do you know of frescos that you think look quite nice? Also, does afresco have the durability of a worsted?

[J. Cogburn]

How formal is your environment? You might have good luck staying comfortable with odd coats and trousers of varying weights, which you could mix up. You can get away with heavier trousers in hot weather and lighter coats in cool weather because it is your trunk and not your extremeties that determine how warm or cool you'll be.

Not particularly. I could wear an odd coat and trousers five days a week and, as long as I have a tie on and look well put together, no one would bat an eye. In fact, I have colleagues that are in odd jackets more often than they are in suits.

But since I am often invited to go on TV with only a few hours notice, I prefer to wear suits. Of course, it wouldn't be the worse thing in the world to go on TV in an odd coat.

[old henry]

Only one cloth weight ? H.Lesser tropical and a pare of red long-johns.

[Costi]

Yale, there are some nice heavier frescoes around that look and feel good - perhaps members who flip through the books more often than I can give you names and codes. A good, high twist fresco is durable and resilient. The Brisa, for instance, wrinkles much less than a worsted (but it is a high twist 3 ply). I think you should stop getting more of them 9-10 oz all-year-round suits until you get a at least a 13 oz suit (it's not even that heavy at all, you'll see) and feel the difference. I think there will be no going back. The less lightweight or all-season suits you will have by then, the less you will regret
J. Cogburn, I think 5 suits is not so restrictive and, rather than try to make them all year-round suits (which is impossible anyway), I think you'd be better off having a couple of Spring-Summer-Autumn suits made and 3 Autumn-Winter-Spring suits. That will give you a bit of diversity (a fresco, a couple of different weight worsteds, a flannel, something else you might like to try). You can also style the suits differently, according to what the cloth inspires you to do with it - SB, DB, 2 buttons, 3 buttons etc. You may leave an all-summer suit like a linen suit or an all-winter one like tweed for later on. But I think you'd be better off concentrating on acheving an overall balance between warm weather and cool weather suits with these 5 pieces, rather than try to make them all similar and theoretically wearable all-year-round (which, as Carl aptly describes, will result in too thin cloths for winter and too tightly woven for summer, both unpleasant to wear and with terrible drape).
Carl the Mistral is not strictly a summer cloth (I don't remember the weight, but it's above 13 oz), but it is what I called above a Spring-Summer-Autumn cloth, i.e. one that can be worn during the warmer months of the year, thanks to (or because of) its ventilation properties.

[carl browne]

Thanks, Costi

I really like the 14/15 oz frescos, but the range is so limited. Minnis only offers Oxford and Cambridge grays, navy and black in that weight. I've got a gray and a navy and don't wear black, so I've exhausted the range. I'd love to see the the Mistral in light gray, tan, and olive.

Another thought: Is there such a thing as a 15 oz mohair? Would that work year 'round?

C

[jgmounts]

For the first Washington DC suit I would go 11 oz. For the second,considering that you will not have it for several months,12 to 13 oz. flannel db. For the third 9 oz. fresco. Let experience guide you from there. Probably another 11 oz. and 9 oz. fresco.

[ay329]

How well do you tolerate heat?

If you are cold blooded as I am, then you might find a comfortable home in the 480 gram or 17oz range for worsted wools.

I have tried lighter weight cloths (worsteds and worsted/woolen flannels) in the 10/11oz range & below (some were in the Super 100/120 range) and open weave cloths in the 9-12oz range...but was not impressed.

I have opted to move my wardrobe for a majority of the months in the year, to a higher weight range. And I add a vest to keep me toasty. I am much happier with how the heavier weight cloths feel on me and feel my tailor accomplishes a better style & feel on my body.

I recently removed 4 suits from their garment bags as I have not worn them in a couple of years, but have notice how the inferior cloths and lighter weights just do not look or feel good on me. Thus I am actively seeking their replacement via the LL Cloth Club

[Merc]

isnt that missing the whole point-- in the bespoke world you can build a wardrobe using the right tools for the job
if you dont have enough money to do it at once, you can do it slowly
there is no magic weight..year-round weight is miserable in july in NY and lots of other places unless you're like my grandmother was and need to wear a sweater below 85 degrees

it was 92F today in NY and a saw a load of guys in midtown in 10-11 oz cheap black and dark navy suits looking like the were dying in the heat
they wore it because thats all they have and they wear it year round .

keep the year rounds for fall and spring
wear summer clothes for summer and for winter either heavy weight or year round if you work in an overheated office. (wear something warm over it outside of course)
id say for summer either a tropical weight 7 oz or a somewhat heavier 10-ish open weave /fresco

[J. Cogburn]

Isn't that missing the whole point-- in the bespoke world you can build a wardrobe using the right tools for the job . If you dont have enough money to do it at once, you can do it slowly. There is no magic weight...

I hear you. This has been my feeling all along, but I was getting spooked by the financial commitment involved in a five-suit rotation for each of three seasons. I think I have come around to the following plan of action:

1. Get five "shoulder season" worsted suits at 10-11 oz weight as quickly as possible. For this, I will go MTM because (a) I don't have enough money to go all-bespoke all at once, and (b) I have no suitable suits at present given my weight loss over the past year. MTM can deliver in five weeks at a reasonable price and I can have those suits for this season.

2. Start picking-up summer suits early next year. There will be no need to rush because I can rely on the shoulder season suits to get me through the first summer by just shedding the jacket whenever I can. I will likely have to use W.W. Chan for the summer suits - one of the better Hong Kong tailors - for financial reasons. Long delivery times mean that these suits won't be deployable until the summer after next.

3. After five summer suits are in the closet, I'll move towards the winter suits. I can either stick with Chan at this point or avail myself of local bespoke tailors.

This is Will Boehlke's advice and, after looking for ways around it, I think it is probably best.